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#15323 - 10/13/02 01:57 PM GFI question  
rowd  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 31
Park Forest, Illinois, USA
I recently wired a kitchen and picked up the outlets, garbage disposal, dishwasher and a light on the downstream. Everything was fine until I turned on the light. Kept tripping the GFI out and I could not find anything wrong with the light. Anyone know why this is happening?


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#15324 - 10/13/02 02:19 PM Re: GFI question  
sparky66wv  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,232
West Virginia
First, A GFCI will trip if there is an unbalance of 6mA or more between the grounded conductor and the ungrounded conductor. Look for any place that the "ground wire" (bare wire) is touching a "neutral", (terminal or bare wire end) such as in the receptacle boxes. Even if the problem is not in the light, it will trip when the light switch is turned on (or any other load) do to the parallel path for the neutral current.

Second, in new wiring, one should not combine lighting, fixed appliances, and small appliance receptacle circuits.

See: 210.52(B)(1) & 210.52(B)(2)

Do not confuse 220.16(A) as permission to combine the small appliance circuits with the lighting loads, this is for demand calcs only!

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 10-13-2002).]


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
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#15325 - 10/13/02 02:48 PM Re: GFI question  
rowd  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 31
Park Forest, Illinois, USA
there is no bare wire. the wiring is in conduit......but if I read you correctly,.... if the neutral is in contact anywhere with the conduit or box the GFI will trip when a load is applied?


#15326 - 10/13/02 04:41 PM Re: GFI question  
sparky66wv  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,232
West Virginia
In fact, a ground to neutral contact anywhere on that entire circuit (post GFCI) could be causing the problem.

Sorry to assume you were using romex... Pipe? Are you in Chicago? Just curious.

Again, I'm assuming this is residential...

If this is commercial, then 210.52(B)1 & 2 don't apply, and I'm out of line...

[Linked Image]


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

#15327 - 10/13/02 08:12 PM Re: GFI question  
rowd  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 31
Park Forest, Illinois, USA
Yep.... [Linked Image] the Windy City. 6 flat residential on the south side called Hyde Park. All pipe and #12 stranded. I'll have to check the rest of the system for a stray thread of copper touching the ground.....I'm sure that's the problem.
You know how you slide the insulation back and leave it on the end of the wire to keep the ends from fraying out all over the place?
I'd bet dollars to donuts there is a stray strand of copper touching the box somewhere.

[This message has been edited by rowd (edited 10-13-2002).]


#15328 - 10/13/02 08:15 PM Re: GFI question  
scjohn  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 74
charleston, SC, USA
Rowd, this is off the subject, but wiring a house in emt. How long does it take you to wire a 2000 sq. house?? Dont get me wrong, i believe it to be the best way but..
I have always thought that romex was nothing more than glorified extension cord. The few houses that i wire seem to take forever even with 'exstension cord'.
John


#15329 - 10/13/02 08:21 PM Re: GFI question  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
Aren't you not supposed to connect stranded wire to terminals? And why are the lights and appliances being feed from the small appliance circuits? This dosent look too good here.


#15330 - 10/13/02 08:21 PM Re: GFI question  
rowd  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 31
Park Forest, Illinois, USA
John.....2000 Sq. Ft.? If it's just me and a helper 10 days.10 to install the pipe and a day to pull it all. Another day to make up all the connections and install devices. But I'm not the fastest pipe bender. [Linked Image] If it's a gang of 4 or "bunker busters" I've seen em do it in three days,......but everything spiders out of ceiling boxes in each room (the quickest) and I wouldn't bet my pay on the square and plumb of the piping job or 1900 bxs.

[This message has been edited by rowd (edited 10-13-2002).]


#15331 - 10/13/02 08:38 PM Re: GFI question  
rowd  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 31
Park Forest, Illinois, USA
Quote
Aren't you not supposed to connect stranded wire to terminals? And why are the lights and appliances being feed from the small appliance circuits? This dosent look too good here.


I've never heard of not connecting stranded to terminals except in motor applications. Then you should ise crimp connectors or terminals. Appliances and countertop receptacles can share a circuit as long as you don't have more that two major appliances on a circuit and in Chicago as long as the dishwasher is installed with a counter-top switch to shut off the power to the dishwasher. The one lite that is on the circuit is over the sink.....I don't know if this is allowed or not.I know a receptacle for a clock is allowed on this circuit. I've not had a inspector tag me for it.


#15332 - 10/14/02 05:54 PM Re: GFI question  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
I checked it out and it is a Massachusetts amendment that requires the stranded wire to be either soldered or crimp on connectors used for connections to terminals. The samll appliance circuits are for just that "small appliances" says the NEC. I would argue that neither a dishwasher or disposal would fit this description. A light fixture is not allowed to be on this circuit either.


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