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#150799 - 11/18/05 09:03 PM breaker watch?
Mckibben Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 5
Loc: bothel
Is it considered a safe practice to forgo lockout tagout procedures and have another electrician just wait by the breaker. Does osha or nfpa 70e explicitly allow for this? And if so, is there any documentation required about what breakers were shut off and what panel was entered, time so forth?

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#150800 - 11/18/05 09:27 PM Re: breaker watch?
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Hi Mckibben,
Welcome to ECN!.
In a word, no.
The person that locks and tags out an energy source is responsible for that isolation.
Delegating that task to someone else, without using the required LOTO gear, just means that there is something else that can go wrong while the circuit is being worked upon.
If anything went wrong during the work, the first question in any investigation would be, was the circuit locked out?.......

{Could Paul, Roger or Scott please move this thread to the Occ Safety Area?}
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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#150801 - 11/19/05 03:30 AM Re: breaker watch?
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
I do not believe so.

OSHA has two permitted procedures I am aware of

Tag out or lock out tag out.

 Quote:
1910.333(b)(2)

"Lockout and Tagging." While any employee is exposed to contact with parts of fixed electric equipment or circuits which have been deenergized, the circuits energizing the parts shall be locked out or tagged or both in accordance with the requirements of this paragraph. The requirements shall be followed in the order in which they are presented (i.e., paragraph (b)(2)(i) first, then paragraph (b)(2)(ii), etc.).


Note 1: As used in this section, fixed equipment refers to equipment fastened in place or connected by permanent wiring methods.


Note 2: Lockout and tagging procedures that comply with paragraphs (c) through (f) of 1910.147 will also be deemed to comply with paragraph (b)(2) of this section provided that:


[1] The procedures address the electrical safety hazards covered by this Subpart; and


[2] The procedures also incorporate the requirements of paragraphs (b)(2)(iii)(D) and (b)(2)(iv)(B) of this section.


You should read all of 1910.33

OSHA 1910.333



Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#150802 - 11/19/05 06:20 AM Re: breaker watch?
Mckibben Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 5
Loc: bothel
So, testing the circuit is manditory, but the sole responsibility is placed on the person who did the lock out tag out.(in the event of a faulty reading) Is this correct?

Is it required that the lock out tag out be done by the individual working on that circuit? Or is this just good practice (Can another electrician lock and tag out the circuit for you.)- I've done this many times

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#150803 - 11/19/05 02:23 PM Re: breaker watch?
Celtic Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 367
Loc: NJ
 Quote:
Is it required that the lock out tag out be done by the individual working on that circuit? Or is this just good practice (Can another electrician lock and tag out the circuit for you.)- I've done this many times


Anyone can take out the LOTO - BUT YOU SHOULD ALWAYS PUT YOUR OWN LOCK ON ALSO.

Imagine a conveyor system with millwrights and electricians all working the same equipment..millright takes the LOTO, you add an additional LOTO and lock. The equipment cannot become "live" until ALL locks have been removed.

I would NOT rely on "someone else" to watch my back ie, another electrician watching the CB. His phone might ring, service is crappy, he walks around corner; a pretty girl walks by ~ he starts watching her and takes a few steps; he needs a bathroom; ...this could go on and on. A lock stays where it is put.

Every company/customer will have a LOTO policy(in writing). If for some reason they do not, YOU should have a LOTO procedure. If the customer does have a LOTO policy, your lock will not diminish the value of their procedure.
_________________________
~~ CELTIC ~~
...-= NJ =-...

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#150804 - 11/20/05 09:49 AM Re: breaker watch?
Mckibben Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 5
Loc: bothel
I just read in my osha book

"each person that could be exposed directly or indirectly to a source of electrical energy shall be involved in the lock/out tag out process" I did not know this!

NFPA 70E - 120.2 (B)(1)

So you can't just say: "did you lock it out?

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