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#150035 - 08/13/04 07:24 AM True Phase Rotation Tests
Trumpy Offline

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Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Guy's,
There have been testers around to do this sort of test, for years.
I note that a number of two probe testers give a Phase Rotation reading on them, in the form of a circular arrow on an LCD screen.
Could someone please correct my way of thinking, in so much as,I was under the impression, to effect a decent 3 Phase Rotation test, you had to have a tester that would connect to and test all 3 of the phases.
The question I ask, is this, how can a 2 probe tester do the same job as a 3 Clamp tester?
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#150036 - 08/13/04 01:38 PM Re: True Phase Rotation Tests
Ron Offline
Member

Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 577
Loc: White Plains, NY
I cannot imagine a wiring configuration with only two phases that would tell a phase rotation for all three. Could you share a product manufacturer and model?
This one has three wires connected. http://www.traknet.com/wei/aemc9.html
My understanding is many rotation testers are really small induction motors that rotate in a direction relative to the phase rotation measured/applied.

Maybe an electronic meter could see phases AB, determine that they are 120 deg out of phase and assume that the third phase is either before the A or after the B, resulting in clockwise rotation either way ABC or CAB.

[This message has been edited by Ron (edited 08-13-2004).]
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#150037 - 08/13/04 02:18 PM Re: True Phase Rotation Tests
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
Hmmm..... I don't recall ever seeing a two-probe tester, but I don't get involved with 3-phase much.

Let's say you connected to two phases, A and B. There are only two basic possibilities no matter which two of the three phases you picked at random:

#1. A leads B by 120 degrees. Therefore C must lag B by 120 and lead A by 120 deg.

#2. A lags B by 120 degrees. Therefore C must lead B by 120 deg. and lag A by 120 deg.

So as I see it, you could prove rotation in this way.

However......

You would still need three connections to be able to get a reference point for A and B.

In the case of, say a British/NZ 415Y/240-volt system, we know that A and B are 240V to ground. But unless you have a third reference point, you have no way to determine which lags or leads the other with respect to ground.

Any instrument connected solely across A and B with no other point of reference will see only a simple 415V RMS sinusoidal waveform, nothing more.

A suitably sensitive device might be able to use capacitive coupling to the user's hand to obtain a ground reference. That's the only way I can think of.


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 08-13-2004).]

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#150038 - 08/14/04 10:59 AM Re: True Phase Rotation Tests
Bjarney Offline
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Registered: 04/10/02
Posts: 2561
Loc: West-Southern Inner-Northeast ...
I don’t think phase sequence can be defined with less than three connections. Trumpy, do the red, cylindrical testers {forgot the brand} you spoke of use three leads for phase sequence tests?

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#150039 - 08/14/04 12:30 PM Re: True Phase Rotation Tests
DougW Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 1083
Loc: North Chicago, IL
The Ideal, Greenlee and Amprobe testers all have 3 leads... I too am cornfuzed...

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#150040 - 08/18/04 02:23 AM Re: True Phase Rotation Tests
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Bjarney, the information about the Duspol tester, that uses 2 probes to effect a Phase-sequence test can be found at this site:
http://www.benning.de.paus-service.de/cmsfiles/784314_duspol_gb.pdf" target="_blank">=http://www.benning.de.paus-service.de/cmsfiles/784314_duspol_gb.pdf http://www.benning.de.paus-service.de/cmsfiles/784314_duspol_gb.pdf
Edit: Bad link!

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 08-18-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 08-18-2004).]
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#150041 - 08/18/04 08:15 AM Re: True Phase Rotation Tests
resqcapt19 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2209
Loc: IL
Mike,
Is this the one ?
Don
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#150042 - 08/18/04 08:16 AM Re: True Phase Rotation Tests
C-H Offline

Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 1508
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Try this link

I've seen these testers too and never understood how they work.

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#150043 - 08/18/04 08:33 AM Re: True Phase Rotation Tests
Bjarney Offline
Moderator

Registered: 04/10/02
Posts: 2561
Loc: West-Southern Inner-Northeast ...
Mike, thanks. For the life of me I could not remember “Duspol.”
www.benning.de/alt/englisch/eduspols.pdf www.trueshopping.co.uk/product.php?pid=1325&cid=26&rfid=5&pn=Draper+Duspol+S+Voltage+Tester

“…Indicates The Phase-sequence Direction of a Three-phase Main Provided The Neutral is Earthed.”

That may mean: two phases and a neutral, which is a valid phase-sequence test.

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#150044 - 08/18/04 10:10 AM Re: True Phase Rotation Tests
resqcapt19 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2209
Loc: IL
bj,
But the tester only has two leads.
Don
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