The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!


2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Recent Posts
Safety at heights?
by HotLine1
01/21/17 08:51 PM
International Wire Colour Codes
by Texas_Ranger
01/21/17 03:29 PM
Looking for older post
by Texas_Ranger
01/21/17 03:22 PM
Last time to chat here
by Trumpy
01/20/17 11:41 PM
Unsafe Situations
by Trumpy
01/20/17 09:46 PM
New in the Gallery:
Desk-mounted "power-board"
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
Admin 35
HotLine1 21
Trumpy 19
Ruben Rocha 17
gfretwell 16
Who's Online
2 registered (Admin, dougwells), 76 Guests and 10 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#147160 - 11/29/01 02:27 PM PPE vs. loss of Tactility
sparky Offline

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
Self explanitory intro,

have you been there?

We can cover electrical & then some..

anyone spike a jellco in full turnout here??

Arc Flash PPE Clothing, LOTO & Insulated Tools
#147161 - 11/29/01 02:51 PM Re: PPE vs. loss of Tactility
pauluk Offline

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
I'm guessing here: PPE = Personal Protective Equipment???

Slight language problem again with "spike a jellco". Translation please!

#147162 - 11/29/01 03:14 PM Re: PPE vs. loss of Tactility
sparky Offline

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
Yes Paul, that would be PPE. And if you have enough of it on you're senses are diminished. Some may argue the trade off for the protection they provide, but many I know will vouch for the loss of tactility needed at crucial moments, particularly in a confined space.

Jellco is a new IV catheter that retracts the steel 'needle' into a plastic stiletto style sheath as the catheter advances into a vien. It is meant to cut down on needle sticks, however it was marketed by sheer manufacturing hype to the healthcare community, on badly collected statistics...

Another goodie is HEPA masks, or basically fine particle masks, to something like 3 microns. These were all the rage, simply due to multi-drug resistant TB , etc. A while back attending a conference, a nationally recognized speaker trashed the concept, while retialers lined the halls touting them as 'required' PPE.

Short version,
If safety is everyones business, then everyone should consider the business of safety.

#147163 - 11/29/01 07:27 PM Re: PPE vs. loss of Tactility
Redsy Offline

Registered: 03/28/01
Posts: 2138
Loc: Bucks County PA
Loss of tactility vs. Loss of life!

Kidding aside, there is also a comfort issue. It is often difficult to voluntarily comply with PPE requirements, so make them do-able. I no longer test live 480 volt circuits without voltage rated gloves with leather protectors, and safety glasses. The 500 or 1000 volt rated(class 00 & 0) gloves aren't bad at all. Also I'll never again change an underground meter socket without an arc shield to protect my (less than) handsome face.

[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 11-30-2001).]

#147164 - 11/30/01 02:44 PM Re: PPE vs. loss of Tactility
pauluk Offline

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
Good food for thought here.

I must confess that I like to be able to see and feel what I'm doing as best I can, so I tend to keep protective gear to a minimum.

I had to wear my 1000V gloves just a couple of days ago to do a live service changeover, but they were off as soon as the cables were prepared and I could transfer to insulated tools (also rated to 1000V) for the final tightening etc.

I must confess I've never thought about donning the gear just to put a meter on 240V 1-ph or 415V 3-ph for a test.

Maybe I'm showing my electronics background where even when working on a 2 or 3kV power supply it just isn't practical to work that way due to the available space. Admittedly those supplies are of more limited current capacity, so a big arc-flash isn't likely, but with several amps continuous available, they're certainly capable of delivering a lethal jolt.

I don't like the claustrophobic feeling they give to breathing, but I'll use masks for attic work where loose fiberglass insulation is involved.

#147165 - 11/30/01 08:52 PM Re: PPE vs. loss of Tactility
granam Offline

Registered: 11/30/01
Posts: 21
Loc: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada
>I no longer test live 480 volt circuits without voltage rated gloves with leather protectors, and safety glasses.

I test 480V and 600V circuits all the time without voltage-rated gloves. I use regular work gloves, safety glasses with side shields, and a good multimeter with internal HRC fuses.

The only time I would use voltage-rated gloves would be if I'm sticking a shotgun into a 5KV or higher piece of equipment to test for the presence of voltage. In that case, I make sure that the gloves are rated higher than the equipment, and that both the gloves and the shotgun have up-to-date test certificates.


#147166 - 12/01/01 03:45 AM Re: PPE vs. loss of Tactility
sparky Offline

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
At a hazmat, the scottpack in an encapsulating suit the view is out the scott mask, as well as the encapulating suits, both scratchy. Thankfully, a two-way with headset are donned for some guidance. There are two sets of gloves duct taped on, as well as boots. Tenders put you in, get you out.
Pocket knives are confiscated, so one cannot draw back an arm into the suit for this manner of escape,the duct tape would usually be detriment enough. The proper proceedure being a progression thru the decon area, hot to cold so to speak....

At one incident, the time frame got screwed up, the scott's audibly ding down ( fast to slow) for lowering air reserve/press.
Mine ran flat out.
As the mask is strapped on the ol' gourd good enough so that it can barely be pushed aside to breath 'suit air' so inhalation simply results in it sucking in closer to one's face.
The tenders did'nt tab the duct tape as to allow for quicker , or what i'd consider emergency decon/disrobe. ( thier Bad!)

#147167 - 12/01/01 09:00 AM Re: PPE vs. loss of Tactility
njelectricmaster Offline

Registered: 04/29/01
Posts: 110
Loc: Lead, South Dakota
Hello From Colorado!!!!!

I must admit that most of the guys in our shop do not use enough PPE, But Safety glasses, and Leather gloves are a requirement. If you dont want to wear them, we just send you home!

Jon Niemeyer

#147168 - 01/11/02 04:55 AM Re: PPE vs. loss of Tactility

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 142
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
PECO repairman burned
Thursday, January 10, 2002
A PECO Energy Co. repairman was burned yesterday as he checked a malfunctioning electric meter outside a commercial building on Biles Island in Falls. Steve Schrader, 36, was burned when a "flash fire" erupted about 8 a.m. after he removed the meter's glass cover, PECO spokesman Michael Wood said. The fire caused second-degree burns on Schrader's cheeks and left ear. A piece of flying metal left a third-degree burn on his face, Wood said. Physicians at Capital Health Systems' Fuld Campus in Trenton told PECO that Schrader wouldn't need plastic surgery. He was expected to stay the night at the hospital and be released today, Wood said. Schrader, a PECO energy technician since 1995, was wearing safety goggles, a hard hat and fire-resistant clothing - the standard gear for field workers, Wood said. He added that the gear most likely prevented Schrader from being more severely burned.
Schrader was following up on a complaint of a damaged meter at the Penn Warner Group, a building on Biles Island, Wood said. The Penn Warner Group is a subsidiary of Waste Management Inc., which owns the island, WMI spokeswoman Judy Archibald said. The problem was caused by a circuit board owned by Penn Warner Group. As a precaution, PECO shut power to the building, Wood said. Most of Biles Island's 467 acres are mined by the Penn Warner Group for the stone and gravel used to bury trash at WMI's landfills in Falls and Tullytown. About 41 acres of the island's northern tip have been designated a wildlife preserve, Archibald said.

For more news on electrical accidents or other industrial accidents, go to Serious Incident Alert Archives


ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals