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#146346 - 12/01/06 04:46 AM Odd Irish energy efficiency campaign
djk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1269
Loc: Ireland
http://www.powerofone.ie/

Quite weird tv ad - asking people not to use appliances between 5 and 7 pm..

Should we be worried?

They seem to be suddenly very concerned about reducing peak demand.



[This message has been edited by djk (edited 12-01-2006).]

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#146347 - 12/01/06 09:39 AM Re: Odd Irish energy efficiency campaign
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
It does sound a little ominous. Maybe the load on the network at peak times is getting perilously close to capacity?

Reminds me of that 1960s Irish TV ad to switch off all unnecessary loads. (Like a 250kW TV transmitter, for example? )

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#146348 - 12/02/06 05:24 AM Re: Odd Irish energy efficiency campaign
djk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1269
Loc: Ireland
I think it's more to do with our *SLIGHT* non-compliance with our Kyoto protocol limits. We were allowed 13% increase.

Ireland's performance is pretty bad in this regard, mostly due to a massive economic boom and a rapidly rising population (due to inward migration)
In the same period population went from 3.4 million to 4.25 million.

According to RTE (an Irish public service broadcaster)
This has resulted in a 120% increase in Ireland's CO2 emissions between 1990 and 2001. According to SEI, Ireland's CO2 levels will have risen to 180% of the 1990 levels between 2008 and 2012. Under the Kyoto Protocol, Ireland is only permitted to have a 13% increase in CO2 emissions by the end of the decade.

We look like we'll be facing fines in billions of € (or $) as a result.

However, I think somehow there's a bit of concern about the energy supply network too. Our peak demand's predicted to hit new records this winter and it's coming very dangerously close to the peak capacity of the generation system.

ESB and Eirgrid (the network operators) are spending huge amounts of money (billions) upgrading the entire supply system but there has been a major hickup in terms of rolling out new generation capacity.

The government and the EU have been opening up the electricity market for some time now and trying to end the absolute dominance of ESB.

ESB was prevented from building new power plants, as it was already too dominant. The problem was that private companies entering the market weren't building anything remotely near the capacity that was needed. The most logical and cost-effective sollution was for ESB to expand existing plants to boost capacity.

They're now proposing to force ESB to sell off some of its power generation capacity to break it up a little bit thus, introducing more competition.

The other major project is a pair of very large DC interconnectors to the UK across the Irish sea.
500MW each to connect us to the British system and via the British system into Europe.

They're aiming to go to at least 10% wind / hydro / wave / etc and looking into other carbon neutral technologies like biofuels to try and get our power generation into a more kyoto compliant state.

That's being coupled with large grants for installation fo solar panels, heat pumps, high level insulation, and other energy efficienty measures in homes.

Large businesses are also being encouraged to use CHP (Combined Heat and Power) i.e. a small gas turbine to reduce net CO2 emissions. Particularly, during peak hours.

The vast majority of our power (over 94%) is generated by burning fossil fuels - mostly natural gas. There is one large coal buring power plant on the west coast (Money Point) and a couple that either burn oil or switch between gas and oil depending on the costs.

Vast majority of the gas plants are quite efficient and have been upgraded to combined cycle i.e. a gas turbine stage followed by a conventional thermal plant.

But, we've a LONG way to go if we're going to get our emissions under limit.

The other huge problem here is the total over-dependence on cars. Car ownership has and continues to increase rapidly .
Over 90% of passenger and goods movement in Ireland occurs by road which is drastically out sync with our other EU counterparts. Car ownership levels are increasing extremely rapidly from the low side of the European average to a level that is rapidly heading towards US levels. No of cars on the road trippled in under 30 years.

Public transport is generally totally underdeveloped. While the trains, trams and busses are all shiney, high tech and modern. They don't provide anything remotely approaching the service levels in other parts of Europe.

Also, our planning (or lack of) didn't help in that area either. Since the 1960s we've been building sprawling car-friendly public transport-free suburbs. Dublin's sprawling is now reaching epic levels to a stage where absolutely everything has to be done in a car. Commutes to work, kids driven to school / creches, all shopping, buying a newspaper / a liter of milk - all require driving.

So, it's no wonder we're a total CO2 disaster zone!

On the plus side, we've very little heavy industry (if any at all) so, for the most part we've no single big producers of CO2. Which just makes our householders even more of an international disgrace

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#146349 - 12/29/06 07:33 PM Re: Odd Irish energy efficiency campaign
RODALCO Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 863
Loc: Titirangi, Akld, New Zealand
It looks like that the system is heavily overloaded and near it's maximum capacity if they are asking customers to turn off appliances over the 1700 - 1900 hrs timeperiod.
Also if they had spare thermal capacity it would be expensive to run and is mostly diesel or jetfuel peak load generation.
_________________________
The product of rotation, excitation and flux produces electricty.

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#146350 - 12/31/06 12:19 PM Re: Odd Irish energy efficiency campaign
djk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1269
Loc: Ireland
I don't think we've any diesel or jet fuel power generation in Ireland that I'm aware of anyway.

However, the less efficient plants do come on line at peak load. These would typically be smaller older stations dating from the 1970s and mostly burn natural gas or oil.

They're looking at serious expansion of some of the more efficient stations by adding more combined cycle thermal capacity on the same sites.

There are some stations which had their capacity upgraded in the 1980s with the addition of open cycle gas turbines on the same site (buring natural gas). These would probabally be amongst the least efficient but most easily available sources of power here.

Combined cycle is sooo much more efficient.


[This message has been edited by djk (edited 12-31-2006).]

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#146351 - 12/31/06 07:39 PM Re: Odd Irish energy efficiency campaign
EV607797 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA, USA
So I take it that nuclear energy is out of the question? It seems like it would greatly improve the situation by increasing capacity and eliminating CO2 emissions. Of course, it would take years to build a plant and bring it on line, but I would think that in such a dire situation, the idea would at least be on the table.

I live near a very efficient nuclear plant and enjoy dramatically lower electric rates in comparison to other parts of the country. Ironically, most electricity generated by this facility is sold to other utilities in the Northern states. The profits made from sales offset the local power company's costs, therfore, they pass these savings onto their customers. Everybody wins with this arrangement.
_________________________
---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."

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#146352 - 01/01/07 03:04 AM Re: Odd Irish energy efficiency campaign
RODALCO Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 863
Loc: Titirangi, Akld, New Zealand
EV607797
I wish that our Wellingtonians listened to that option too.
Auckland needs a big 2 GW nuclear power plant north of it.
Exactly as you say , it will reduce CO2 emissions and the transmission problems we currently have with a heavily overloaded grid.
Also the cheaper tariffs will be a bonus as well.
Our tariffs have doubled over the last 6 years.
_________________________
The product of rotation, excitation and flux produces electricty.

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#146353 - 01/01/07 05:59 AM Re: Odd Irish energy efficiency campaign
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
 Quote:
So I take it that nuclear energy is out of the question?

I'm sure Dave will confirm or deny, but I get the impression that the Irish government is very anti-nuclear.

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#146354 - 01/01/07 03:48 PM Re: Odd Irish energy efficiency campaign
EV607797 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA, USA
That's too bad because they are shooting themselves in the foot in the long run. I have a 3,800 SF all-electric home, well water and we are engergy hogs. We rarely have an outage and our monthly bill rarely exceeds $225.00 (that's in the coldest part of winter). It's usually below $200.00 per month. I am sure that the nuclear plant here at Lake Anna, Virginia is the reason for this.
_________________________
---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."

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#146355 - 01/01/07 06:11 PM Re: Odd Irish energy efficiency campaign
djk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1269
Loc: Ireland
Nuclear's totally out of the question. The general public's extremely anti-nuclear in Ireland and no politician who valued their seat or career would dare to disagree with that public sentiment.

The idea was floated by various business lobbies and economists but there's absolutely no way it would be considered. There's just no public appetite for it at all.

Any nuclear power used in Ireland would have to come in via an interconnector.

A nuclear power station was proposed here in the late 1960s to be built during the 1970s at Carnsore Point in County Wexford (Extreme southeast point of Ireland)
They were proposing a fairly large plant with 4 reactors. The pressure from the environmental lobby was so strong that it never happened.

Basically hundreds of small independent community anti-nuclear groups appeared out of nowhere and were just absolutely opposed to the idea of it.

Festivals were held on the proposed site etc etc.

The idea was still floating around until about 1980/81.

Then Three Mile Island happened which created very bad PR and then Chernobyl in the mid 80s was the final nail in the coffin.



[This message has been edited by djk (edited 01-01-2007).]

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