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#14625 - 09/26/02 11:25 AM Use of plastic cable ties
JPB Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 3
Loc: Westford MA USA
It seems to be common practice to use plastic cable ties to support MC cable. I can't find anything in the code that says yes or no.

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#14626 - 09/26/02 11:58 AM Re: Use of plastic cable ties
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
Found in the 2002 NEC "see cable ties"

"320.30 Type AC cable shall be secured by staples, cable ties, straps, hangers, or similar fittings designed and installed so as not to damage the cable at intervals not exceeding 1.4 m (41/2 ft) and within 300 mm (12 in.) of every outlet box, junction box, cabinet, or fitting.

334.30 Nonmetallic-sheathed cable shall be secured by staples, cable ties, straps, hangers, or similar fittings designed and installed so as not to damage the cable at intervals not exceeding 1.4 m (41/2 ft) and within 300 mm (12 in.) of every cabinet, box, or fitting. Flat cables shall not be stapled on edge.

527.4(J) Support. Cable assemblies and flexible cords and cables shall be supported in place at intervals that ensure that they will be protected from physical damage. Support shall be in the form of staples, cable ties, straps, or similar type fittings installed so as not to cause damage. Vegetation shall not be used for support of overhead spans of branch circuits or feeders.

530.12(B) Stage Effects and Electrical Equipment Used as Stage Properties. The wiring for stage effects and electrical equipment used as stage properties shall be permitted to be wired with single- or multiconductor listed flexible cords or cables if the conductors are protected from physical damage and secured to the scenery by approved cable ties or by insulated staples. Splices or taps shall be permitted where such are made with listed devices and the circuit is protected at not more than 20 amperes."

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 09-26-2002).]
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

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#14627 - 09/26/02 01:37 PM Re: Use of plastic cable ties
Tom Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 1069
Loc: Shinnston, WV USA
330.30 says "supported and secured" and doesn't say a thing about how to do this. Therefore, it is up to your AHJ as to what is acceptable practice in your area.

I've used cable ties with MC a few times, but much prefer a strap.

Tom
_________________________
Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.

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#14628 - 09/26/02 04:08 PM Re: Use of plastic cable ties
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
JPB,

Note that all cable ties are not created equal. Some will dry out faster and get brittle. This type may be unacceptable to the AHJ.

Bill

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#14629 - 09/26/02 05:39 PM Re: Use of plastic cable ties
tsolanto Offline
Member

Registered: 09/03/02
Posts: 131
Loc: Long Island NY
Are plastic ties listed for such use. If it is not listed to be used with MC NM etc. I beleive you can't use them, as silly as it sounds... I have been violated for using plastic ties to support NM cables. The inspector said it was in violation because it bundled the cables and needed to be derated because of the heat that would be generated. What a load of crappola. This was in a house maybe 6 cables bundled together. Big deal..

[This message has been edited by tsolanto (edited 09-26-2002).]

[This message has been edited by tsolanto (edited 09-26-2002).]

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#14630 - 09/27/02 03:58 AM Re: Use of plastic cable ties
Electricmanscott Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Holden, MA USA
Bill, perhaps a valid point but how would a person know what the life of a cable tie would be?

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#14631 - 09/27/02 06:54 AM Re: Use of plastic cable ties
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
Eman,

I'm not sure, but I have heard Inspectors near me express concern about them. I think that one difference is that some are UV rated and some are not? (I'm guessing here) but not having the right attributes for the situation or location would make them unsuitable.

I have always used metal wire (baling wire) where it was actually supporting cabling because of this. I'd only use plastic cable ties where the object was to 'neaten-up' things a bit.

I think we've had this conversation before somewhere.

Bill

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#14632 - 09/27/02 09:17 AM Re: Use of plastic cable ties
JPB Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 3
Loc: Westford MA USA
Thanks for the help everyone

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#14633 - 09/27/02 10:45 AM Re: Use of plastic cable ties
gregoryf Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 19
Loc: Ketchikan AK USA
To the best of my knowledge, white cable ties are not UV resistant. Black cable ties are UV resistant.

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#14634 - 09/27/02 02:09 PM Re: Use of plastic cable ties
Tom Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 1069
Loc: Shinnston, WV USA
Tsolanto,

Your inspector must like to make things up. There is no requirement that I know of to use "listed" or "listed for the purpose" supporting devices for NM, MC, or AC.

This actually forced me to walk out to my truck and look at 3 sizes of NM staples from 2 differant manufacturers, none of them have a listing mark on the box. I also checked 2 boxes of EMT straps, they're not listed either.

Evidently I would be in serious trouble with the inspectors in your area.
_________________________
Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.

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