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#144974 - 02/09/06 06:58 AM Off topic: Fuel
C-H Offline

Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 1508
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
This is entirely off topic:

Last year people begun talking of switching from petrol to ethanol as the price of petrol went up. This year hundreds of filling stations for ethanol are set to open across the country and the sales are expected to jump from very low levels to a significant market share.

Pretty much the same thing as with the switch from leaded to unleaded, just that the change to ethanol involves some fiddling with the fuel lines in the car.

What is happening in your respective countries?

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#144975 - 02/09/06 10:28 AM Re: Off topic: Fuel
RODALCO Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 863
Loc: Titirangi, Akld, New Zealand
In New Zealand we had up to the mid 1990's CNG or compressed natural gas which was a lot cheaper than petrol or even LPG.

The disadvantage was that you had to fill up about every 130 km's.

Diesel became the most popular fuel for the last 10 years in NZ because of a lot of Japanese import cars, although the government imposed a lot more road user charges on it so there is not much difference between diesel and petrol now these days.

Going prices in NZ $ at the moment in Auckland are as at 9 Feb. 2006
Petrol 91 NZ$ 1.41
Petrol 96 NZ$ 1.46
Diesel NZ$ 1.04

can't remember LPG price of my head,
cheers Ray
_________________________
The product of rotation, excitation and flux produces electricty.

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#144976 - 02/10/06 01:10 AM Re: Off topic: Fuel
C-H Offline

Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 1508
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
CNG and LPG? We've never had that. You have to fill up every 130 km!?!

Diesel didn't become popular until maybe five years ago and is only cheaper for those who drive a lot.

Petrol 95 is a litte over 11 SEK per liter or NZ$2 with diesel marginally cheaper.

E85 (ethanol) is under SEK 8.

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#144977 - 02/10/06 03:11 AM Re: Off topic: Fuel
RODALCO Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 863
Loc: Titirangi, Akld, New Zealand
The local POCO's were very keen on CNG in the late 80's till mid 90's. Obviously there was a lot of time wasted to go to a CNG station each time especially when going in a rural area.
Some vehicles in the fleet were CNG only, others dual fuel, so you could switch to petrol.
Now most POCO vehicles are diesel powered.
CNG was heavily compressed at around 200 atmospheres pressure in a heavy steel tank, usually took up about ½ your car boot. CNG Price worked out at about 60% of your petrol cost and no R.U.C.
There was some loss of power with CNG unless a electronic timing advancer was fitted in addition to the fuel change over switch.
CNG requires about 22° advance compared with petrol around 6° adv.

I ran my own old XY Falcon (4.1 litres) for 12 years on CNG and petrol with no problems whatsoever.

[This message has been edited by RODALCO (edited 02-10-2006).]
_________________________
The product of rotation, excitation and flux produces electricty.

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#144978 - 02/10/06 06:21 AM Re: Off topic: Fuel
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
The majority of filling stations here just offer three fuels these days: Unleaded 95 octane (equivalent to about 91 American due to the different method of measuring), diesel, and LRP (Lead Replacement Petrol). LRP is more expensive than unleaded, diesel and unleaded are fairly close in price.

LPG is available at some stations at about half the price of unleaded, but it's by no means widely available everywhere yet.

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#144979 - 02/10/06 03:20 PM Re: Off topic: Fuel
Rewired Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 567
Loc: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
We have a 1991 Dodge Dakota 4X4 (5.2L)truck that we had converted to CNG (dual fuel really) right from day one.. It has had a few problems with it mostly because it was a "new" thing.. We only get about 100 to 130 Km to a "fill" depending on where, how and who drives it.. We also own a compressor that allows you to re-fill your vehicle right at your home, right off your own gas meter, all that is needed is the gas connection and a 240V 15A circuit.

Problems wise it was mostly electrical, the conversion was very "hack", and the burning of Natural gas in that engine was very hard on the valves for some reason, BUT it did burn very clean. Our 1994 Dodge Caravan (3.3L)had no engine or electrical problems (except for the sheer lack of horsepower), it was converted to CNG from day one as well, that vehicle has since been sold.
The only drawback with owning the compressor is it needs a "rebuild" every few thousand hours at a price of $900 Cdn. but in the long run, CNG is still cheaper than gasoline.

Gasoline prices here in Southern Ontario range from $0.83 to $0.85 /L (87 octane) from what I saw today in my travels.. that seems like a "deal" to most of us considering it was up over a dollar for the longest time, spiking at $1.34 once! Hard on the pocketbook if you drive even a small compact car, but in my case I am the proud owner of a 2000 Dodge Ram 2500 4X4 (5.9L Gasoline motor)... 134 L fuel tank.....1 tank every week and a half..

Boy, do I ever wish it was a Diesel!

A.D

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#144980 - 02/10/06 08:28 PM Re: Off topic: Fuel
aussie240 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 221
Loc: Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia
CNG seems to be a uniquely kiwi thing, for here it's been LPG. It used to be only used in taxis when first introduced about 25 yrs ago but now very common in private vehicles; particularly large ones; 4WD's, 6 & 8 cylinders. There used to be problems with the first generation of LPG cars blowing up...problem was if the tank was overfilled there was no room for expansion, so now they make it so the tank can't be filled more than 80%.
As for petrol, LRP was available until last year I think. Now you just get two varieties of unleaded. There was a scare campaign a few years back when 10% ethanol blends were introduced and people thought it would damage their cars so it went out of fashion. The problem was the plastic parts in the fuel line could dissolve. Not a problem for my Model T Ford
Diesel and petrol are about the same price here ~$1.20 per litre with LPG about half that.

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#144981 - 02/11/06 09:18 AM Re: Off topic: Fuel
Alan Belson Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 1801
Loc: Mayenne N. France
Ask yourself this question:

Will any Government let 'cheaper' fuels remain so, before eventually taxing them up to the equivalent price?

Answer: No.

Conclusion: Trying to be eco-friendly is a waste of time and money.

Apart from running steam traction-engines on old tomato boxes, they got us!

Alan
_________________________
Wood work but can't!

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#144982 - 02/12/06 05:03 AM Re: Off topic: Fuel
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
 Quote:
Will any Government let 'cheaper' fuels remain so, before eventually taxing them up to the equivalent price?


That's the big sting to the whole thing. There are people who have spent a couple of grand getting a vehicle converted to LPG, because at the moment it is about half the price of regular gasoline/petrol (the latter being so high because about 80% of the pump price here is tax, of course ).

If LPG really caught on though, can you imagine it remaining that much cheaper?

Look at VoIP and telephone service in the States. Now that VoIP is starting to take off somewhat, the government is gradually trying to muscle in and impose taxes and regulations to "even it up" with traditional POTS.

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#144983 - 02/12/06 02:31 PM Re: Off topic: Fuel
aussie240 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 221
Loc: Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia
 Quote:
Will any Government let 'cheaper' fuels remain so, before eventually taxing them up to the equivalent price?

That's exactly what happened to diesel here.
To put it simply, they'll tax every fuel as high as they can before they risk losing the next election.

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