The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!


2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Recent Posts
Safety at heights?
by gfretwell
01/21/17 02:19 AM
Looking for older post
by Trumpy
01/21/17 01:04 AM
Last time to chat here
by Trumpy
01/20/17 11:41 PM
Unsafe Situations
by Trumpy
01/20/17 09:46 PM
Webmaster > Admin
by Trumpy
01/20/17 08:29 PM
New in the Gallery:
Desk-mounted "power-board"
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
Admin 35
HotLine1 20
Trumpy 19
Ruben Rocha 17
gfretwell 16
Who's Online
1 registered (NORCAL), 167 Guests and 10 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#144744 - 01/11/06 06:11 AM Re-run of old topic: Europlugs
C-H Offline


Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 1508
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
[caution] This topic has been beaten to death. But it was a couple of years ago, so I thought I just might be time again with a slightly new angle.[/caution]

The Brazilians appear to be serious about their change from NEMA to their own standards for the 220V outlets. (I hope they stay with 5-15 for the 110-127V outlets)

The first few cord-sets have made their way to the market.

It's a 10 and a 20A plug. The 10A ungrounded plug is just a Europlug with a higher rating, the 20A a Europlug with thicker pins. (Almost identical to the South Korean, I think) Thus, you can now buy what looks like a Europlug with 2.5 mm2 cord!

Anyway, it should be safe to use the thick pin version in Europe as well. (Listed at 16A) The grounded plug has a third pin in the middle, offset 3 mm.

Now, in theory, this could be introduced as a common Europlug by means of:

1. Extra hole in Schuko outlet, like on Italian Schuko outlets. Piece of cake.

2. Extra hole in Danish outlet + higher rating. Piece of cake.

3. Lager holes in Swiss 10A outlets + higher rating + ablong center hole. Fairly easy.

4. British outlet: Continue using 13A plug. The new plug will fit inside the 13A plug.

5. Extra hole in French outlet. Piece of cake but there is a catch below.

Catch: To fit in the French/Belgian/Polish outlet, a 1 mm deep, 4 mm wide "depression"/"track" has to be made in the plug to accomdate the French earth pin. This is technically a piece of cake as the track will be on the opposite side of the earth pin of the plug.

I don't think there is much to stop you if someone was to make these and market. They can and will claim some legal mumbo-jumbo, but some low key political moves should put the EU court firmly in favour.

I was thinking of making 1000 pcs of extension cords, 1 m long and send them to the members of the European Parliament to play with. Of course, the cords will have a warning tag on them: "For political use only"

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 01-11-2006).]

Test Equipment:

Large Selection of Test Equipment For Electrical, HVAC, Test & Measurement
Large Selection of Test Equipment For Electrical, HVAC, Test & Measurement

#144745 - 01/11/06 06:40 AM Re: Re-run of old topic: Europlugs
djk Offline

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1269
Loc: Ireland
The problem is that apart from the "weird countries" aka "les pays anglosaxons" CEE 7/7 is the defacto standard.

Although, I would like to see a system that had a grounding pin rather than scraping contacts/pin receptical as it would make it impossible to mate a grounded plug with an old non-grounded socket outlet.

It does seem like a nice work around though.

The trouble with it is that the plug would still not fit the hundreds of millions of sockets that already accept CEE 7/7 without any problems.

I think perhaps the other sollution is to look at implementing IEC type connectors on ALL appliances. Perhaps, with the option of a lockable version. That way a cord could be simply snapped into place. UK, CEE 7/7 etc

The main thing though, is that I would design the appliance connector so that an under sized cord wouldn't fit an inappropriate appliance.. using keyed plugs and sockets.

Many appliances already have a connection box on the back where the cable is wired into place onto lugs. Certianly that way on my Miele washer and dryer and my Bosch Dishwasher.

#144746 - 01/11/06 02:48 PM Re: Re-run of old topic: Europlugs
aussie240 Offline

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 222
Loc: Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia
their own standards for the 220V outlets

Aren't there enough designs already? Surely the sensible thing is to adopt an existing standard rather than create yet's as silly as the 350VDC proposal. Is it really that difficult to provide the correct plugs for the area before appliances are sold?

#144747 - 01/11/06 03:44 PM Re: Re-run of old topic: Europlugs
SvenNYC Offline

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 1685
Loc: New York City
Well, the plug that Brazil is using is one that was established by the IEC as a world-standard plug.

It's basically a modified Swiss plug. Gee....what a surprise.

#144748 - 01/11/06 04:01 PM Re: Re-run of old topic: Europlugs
djk Offline

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1269
Loc: Ireland
CEE 7/7 for 230V systems and NEMA for 110V systems.. Those *ARE* the international standards. I don't know what the IEC was up to! We didn't need another weird 230V plug system.

I would be infavour of introducing a new version of "schuko" as the international standard.

Identical to a schuko socket in every way except one.. a short protruding pin (like french outlets). On the new version I would insist on polarity being observed. i.e. manufacturers would have to mark terminals clearly on the back of the socket fittings.

CEE 7/7 plugs (rapidly replacing prevoius national standards already) would fit it perfectly.

While I know polarity isn't a big deal, given the design of European-type appliances. It would allow countries wishing to adopt the new CEE 7/7 standard to retain / introduce polarised connectors.

Also, I would simply outlaw the installation of existing French / Schuko outlets within the EU. The new harmonised outlet would replace them. Likewise, the manufacture/sale of schuko/french plugs would be made illegal. The new system would replace them.

(BS1363 countries would remain exempt due to ring mains issues)

Problem solved without loads of incompatability!

[This message has been edited by djk (edited 01-11-2006).]


ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals