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#143779 - 09/07/05 09:50 PM Modern cable
aussie240 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 222
Loc: Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia
Undoubtedly it's another cost cutting measure but what's the go with cables these days? What is being sold as flexible mains cable now looks like light duty speaker flex. In fact I have often assumed it to be just that (for the figure eight cable) until I've seen the 250V 7.5A rating stuck on the reel. TPS is just as bad with the new 4mm looking virtually identical to the previous 2.5mm. The insulation seems to be getting thinned down to the point where it's a wonder if the dielectric strength has actually been tested. And as for 1mm lighting wire...that looks only good for doorbell use (secondary side of transformer of course).
I'm sure the conductors in flexible cords aren't as thick as they used to be either, or is it all just an optical illusion?

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#143780 - 09/08/05 12:22 AM Re: Modern cable
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Aussie240 raises a very valid and not unfounded point here.
Australian and New Zealand cable manufacturers have to comply with local Standards to ensure that thier customers also comply with them Standards.
Importations of cheap, non-complying cables that have thinner insulation and also thinner conductors, make a mockery of our agreed Standards.
As it stands, cables here have to comply to AS ???? (Can anyone fill the gap?).
That means that under that standard, cables used to carry the Standard Low Voltage here, have to have a Voltage rating of 600V/1000V.
That means, 600V between cores and 1000V to Earth.
Flexible Cords are different, they can be 300V/600V, but flexes are not used as fixed wiring.
Aussie,
I know what you mean though mate,
Cables are about the last thing that you can control, I do know that a few DIY stores here have started importing thier own cable from China.
Sure, buy a drum of 100m of 1.5mm2 for NZ$55,
then get an Electrician to hook it up for you.
I'm told this stuff is 200V/400V rated and non-compliant with any regs outside of China.
_________________________
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#143781 - 09/08/05 12:38 AM Re: Modern cable
C-H Offline

Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 1508
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
 Quote:
That means that under that standard, cables used to carry the Standard Low Voltage here, have to have a Voltage rating of 600V/1000V.


I think I saw a notice that this has been changed to 450/750V. Look at the "thin" cable and see what the voltage rating is. From a NZ manufacturer:

"General Cable have been manufacturing Flat and Circular TPS for over 3 decades. These products are offered to AS/NZS 5000.2 (450/750) or the more robust construction of AS/NZS 5000.1 rated at 600/1000V.

TPS or tough plastic sheathed cables can be split into two categories.

Flat TPS trades some of the toughness for an easi peel sheath and is commonly used for the fixed wiring of domestic and industrial lighting, power outlets, and heating.

Circular TPS retains the tough plastic sheath and is more commonly used for commercial and industrial wiring to motors, heating, and lighting, and areas where glanding is required."



The reduced size of conductors is almost certainly an illusion. This was also reported by Americans when the thickness of NM-B was reduced.

For comparison: Europe requires 300/500V for fixed cables and North America 600V. For flexible cords these figures are 300/300V and 300V respectively.

Side note: There have been suggestions from cable material manufacturers to reduce the thickness of the insulation further in Europe. The reason being that some modern halogen-free cables aren't very fire-proof. With less insulation they would add less heat to the fire. The good old PVC doesn't burn well in the first place.



[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 09-08-2005).]

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#143782 - 09/08/05 01:52 AM Re: Modern cable
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
C-H,
 Quote:
Flat TPS trades some of the toughness for an easi peel sheath and is commonly used for the fixed wiring of domestic and industrial lighting, power outlets, and heating.

We didn't ask for "Easi-peel" cables, I'd sooner have good, hard cables that have a good Insulation resistance.
Any Electrician worth thier salt can strip a cable with side-cutters or pliers and a bit of strength.
Must cables be made so that idiots can use them?.
Next they'll be asking that Phase, Neutral and Earth be written on the cores.
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#143783 - 09/08/05 07:58 AM Re: Modern cable
SvenNYC Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 1685
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
We didn't ask for "Easi-peel"
cables


Well the idea is that since it's used in residential applications, speed is of the essence. Especially when it comes to these planned "new towns".

Once it's on the walls and plastered up, nobody's going to care about the toughness of the insulation....until the rats chew the wires up.

I'm no fan of plastic-sheathed building cables. I'm lucky I live in a city where metal-armored cables are the required norm for residential buildings above three stories and any commercial building application.

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#143784 - 09/08/05 08:27 AM Re: Modern cable
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Sven,
 Quote:
Well the idea is that since it's used in residential applications, speed is of the essence

I take it that self-certification hasn't hit NYC yet.
We take cable types rather seriously down here, considering that we not only have a single phase voltage of 230-240VAC, that is Hot-Neutral.
We don't put our cables in conduit, unless it is going underground or it needs extra protection.
_________________________
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#143785 - 09/25/05 03:52 AM Re: Modern cable
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
Looks like I missed this thread first time around (take a hundred lines "I must pay more attention in class!" ).

One thing I'm noticing about our "T&E" these days is that it seems to be getting harder to separate the sheath from the PVC insulation on the conductors. Some of them really seem to be stuck together very solidly.

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#143786 - 09/25/05 04:25 AM Re: Modern cable
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Paul, is the T&E using the bare Earth these days?.
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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#143787 - 09/25/05 08:43 AM Re: Modern cable
chipmunk Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 142
Loc: Southampton, UK
Forgive me for jumping in Trumpy and Paul, but yes, the T&E is still using a bare earth, and not only that, but undersized into the bargain .

Paul, I think the reason it's getting harder to separate the sheathing from the cores is the fact they're using less and less French chalk in the construction.

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#143788 - 01/24/06 11:26 PM Re: Modern cable
RODALCO Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 863
Loc: Titirangi, Akld, New Zealand
Bump!!!

I saw some of this TPS cable at Bunnings Warehouse in Albany. ( dec. 2005 )
Some details below:

100 mtrs 1mm² NZ$79
100 mtrs 1.5mm² NZ$81
100 mtrs 2.5mm² NZ$114

Voltage rating is 450/750 Volts

the 1mm² has a 7 strand earth wire in it.
the red and black are solid 1mm².

Made by Click. code CLKT2E/1113XWH.
bar code starts with 93xxxxxxxx which indicates it comes from Australia.
_________________________
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