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#143570 - 08/01/05 02:55 AM New Thread NZ kitchen gear
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Rather than tie Paul's original thread up, as it was a thread-jack in the first place, I thought I'd start a new thread.
As Kiwi was saying, the Instructions you get these days with new Fixed Appliances and the like here are nothing short of rediculous.
Now I read that the fine for installing non-compliant equipment is to be "capped" at NZ$50,000.
Should the person that installs this equipment be lumbered with that fine, or should it be transferred to the person that bought the appliance, or the company that imported it in the first place?.
We as Electrical contractors should NOT be looked upon as the Police for an industry that can't even police imports.
If we started doing that, we could lose all sorts of work.
I'd say nip these appliances in the bud as they enter the country.
After all, that's what our Tax dollars pay Customs for isn't it?.
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#143571 - 08/01/05 04:21 AM Re: New Thread NZ kitchen gear
Alan Belson Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 1801
Loc: Mayenne N. France
How's your sister's kitchen revamp coming on , Mike? You just hit on one of my pet hates- the assembly instructions coming with stuff, very often a manky, blobby old photocopied shard of A5 crap for the installer, full of laughable chinese-english, ( "Firstlys, loosily bolt both of your nuts onto the base.") and a massive booklet in every known world language attesting that the thing conforms with Standards. The Standards ought to include the quality of the attached paperwork, that would make the buggers get it right. Bean counters are to blame here, trying to wring every last drop of profit onto the bottom line. And blaming the fitter is like shooting the messenger.
Alan

[This message has been edited by Alan Belson (edited 08-01-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Alan Belson (edited 08-01-2005).]
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#143572 - 08/01/05 05:40 AM Re: New Thread NZ kitchen gear
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
 Quote:
"Firstlys, loosily bolt both of your nuts onto the base."




 Quote:
a massive booklet in every known world language attesting that the thing conforms with Standards.

Ain't that the truth? Even small portable appliances now often come with:

* A 38-page booklet in 19 different languages stating that the unit conforms with standards BS-EN xxxxxx, Low-Voltage directive 72/EEC/something-or-other, Arabic standard squiggle-dash-bigger-squiggle, and the requirements of the Outer Mongolian electrical regulatory board.

* Another 38-page booklet of safety instructions, also in 19 languages, warning of the dangers of putting your finger on a rotating blade or of using the device in a rainstorm.

* Two pages of instructions which apply to 9 different models, so none of them are accurate. I've even seen a couple of cheap throwaway power tools where the instructions are nothing more than a series of diagrams!


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 08-01-2005).]

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#143573 - 08/02/05 12:17 AM Re: New Thread NZ kitchen gear
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Alan,
 Quote:
How's your sister's kitchen revamp coming on , Mike?

On a scale of difficulty of 1 to 10, this is going to be about 35.
I went to have a look at the wiring today with the linings off.
Opened up the new MCB switchboard, to find the only stitch of PVC, is the Incoming Mains.
The rest of it is either TRS (Tough(?)- Rubber-Sheathed cable) that is on the brink of failure or even older Steel Conduit.
I could just see a thing like this happening.
I'd like to get a hold of the idiot that installed the new switchboard. GRRRR
What makes it even more interesting is the fact that this is a 2-storey house.
I want to see this house fixed up Electrically, especially with the current condition of the wiring.
Boy, this has got me angry!.
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#143574 - 08/02/05 03:45 AM Re: New Thread NZ kitchen gear
kiwi Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 347
Loc: christchurch new zealand
Trumpy, it sounds like you've opened a whole keg of worms here. Two storeys of TRS and a dodgy DB ! Unfortunately This is common in the South Island though.

F**king TRS. Who was the idiot that decided we could make electical cable out of rubber anyway ?

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#143575 - 08/02/05 05:18 PM Re: New Thread NZ kitchen gear
Alan Belson Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 1801
Loc: Mayenne N. France
I think up to the 1940s the UK called that cable 'Cab Tyre'. Up to the forties, the only insulating materials flexible enough for cable were rubber, cotton / silk textiles/ copal varnish, paper, (or beads!). It must have taken real skill to make rubber sheaths ( pardon the unintended pun) - it's not extruded but laid up in strip form before vulcanising.
Take heart Mike, these jobs never go to plan-after air-pressure testing the underfloor piping, I put down all the boards and made the connections to the manifolds. A final test of the total 2nd floor showed a massive air leak. We spent all Saturday tracing the leak by progressive pressure tests, but still had to rip up 60 new boards to finally get at it. A duff copper push-fit connector ( damaged O ring ) put in to make up a loop back to the manifold. 15 seconds to fix and now another 8 man hours tomorrow to relay the floor boards with cramps. At least it's holding pressure now- 15psi for 24 hours, so now for the anti-freeze!
Alan
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Wood work but can't!

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#143576 - 08/04/05 12:49 AM Re: New Thread NZ kitchen gear
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Yes kiwi,
It is a problem down here in the South Island.
But I don't really see anybody doing anything about it.
A majority of houses that I've been in, in an Electrical capacity, used to be old State houses, that were sold off before a re-wire was deemed necessary.
Now Land-lords own them and we all know what that means, eh?.
TRS was good, but there was never a "Use-By-Date" stated on it's life, mainly because at the time, no-one had a clue how long it would last or how it would deteriorate or what would happen when it did.
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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#143577 - 08/04/05 01:46 AM Re: New Thread NZ kitchen gear
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Oh and one more thing,
Me and my Brother-in-law are going to re-wire the house this weekend.
Should be quite easy.
I'll keep you posted.
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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#143578 - 08/09/05 02:14 PM Re: New Thread NZ kitchen gear
Alan Belson Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 1801
Loc: Mayenne N. France
How'd the rewire go on the weekend Mike? Hope it went better than my weekend:

Saturday morning, ominous puddle in kitchen.
Look under sink, water leak from a soldered joint. Easy fix! Stop-cock off, drain down, cut out offending elbow, get a new one from stock, clean pipe, flux, solder, tools away, coffee!
Standing draining my cup, I hear drip! drip!
Under sink- it's bluddy leaking again! Same place, but a closer examination shows I have damaged the flexible pipe to the cold tap by moving it over a bit. Water off, car ride to the 'brico'. Fit new flexible and washers, but now it leaks from up at the tap! A full hour of gradually more desperate expletives later, I decide to get tap unit off for a shufti, but then Mrs. B says she'd like a new tap, one of those swivel lever ceramic disc chrome mixer jobs. Back to the 'brico', where she chooses the most expensive tap in the northern hemisphere. Home, fit new tap unit, no leaks, bliss!

Sunday morning, ominous puddle in kitchen. Check tap, not leaking. Listen, and it's coming from behind the blinking unit! Nothing for it, rip the back out and make a new two part back later. The pressure relief valve has decided to spring a leak- water coming from a crack in the casting. It's Sunday, so the stores are shut. Temporary fix, remove valve, make up a spacing piece with plastic pipe, couple of band clips, cut new ply-back and fit in two halves, and cross my fingers. All seems ok. An hour later we got no hot water!. The mains is at 4 bar. The water heater pressure relief is 3 bar. I just blew 20 gallons of hot water into the front garden and pasteurised the lawn. Turn relief up to 4.5 bar, set heater to run manual, all ok.

Monday morning ominous puddle etc.etc.
Look under sink, one of the temporary fix band clips needs a tweek. Off to brico, get a new pressure relief valve and a new stop valve and the fittings. Home, fit new kit, turn water heater relief back down to 3 bar, check- no leaks. In and out of the kitchen all day checking, but no leaks.

Tuesday morning ominous etc. etc.
Unit is full of soapy water now! I've split the dishwasher drain hose in my exertions, but this runs on a timer overnight on cheap electricity. Off to local electrical store, new 'Zanussi' pipe, a bloody fortune for a bit of plastic, it's outrageous! Home, fit new hose. Test run, all ok.

If there's an ominous puddle etc. etc. tomorrow morning, the dog is gettting a good kick up the 'arris, 'cos I'm turning the water off at the stopcock tonight, so there!

Alan
_________________________
Wood work but can't!

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#143579 - 08/12/05 11:26 AM Re: New Thread NZ kitchen gear
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Well Alan,
The house is re-wired and I'm happy.
It took me a day and a half.
Hardest part was the lighting circuits (as they always are).
First re-wire I've done in a while and with the way my knees feel at the moment, It'll be the last in a while too.
I also ran a new Main earth lead as well, I went to test the wiring when I finished and found out that the wire at the switchboard and the wire at the Earth stake, were two different bits of wire.
At that stage of the game, I'd lost my patience and wasn't going to muck around tracing it.
I did however pull the old wire at the stake and about 3-4 metres came out of the wall.
Oh well, I was very well fed though!.


{Edit:
Alan,
Speaking of hot water, I remember when I was doing my time, there was a local plumber here in town that got into a whole heap of (no, I'm going to use that pun ) trouble after he drained a Hot water cylinder onto the customers newly laid Ready-turf lawn, which promptly killed a big patch of it.
You'd think a plumber would know better}

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 08-12-2005).]
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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