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#143012 - 04/23/05 05:48 AM Telecomms related Thread
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Guys,
I'm getting true ADSL next week, courtesy of Orcon NZ.
Just in the last week or so, the Commerce Commission here in NZ ruled that Telecom NZ's pricing on Broadband access was nothing short of draconian(sp?).
However, in saying that, this is the same Commerce Commission that said that Un-bundling of the Local loop could affect the Telecomunications for all concerned.
Mainly meaning the incumbent Telecom, there is no way at all that they want the system un-bundled, that would mean that thier strong-hold on the system that they have had since the days of the old NZPO would be lost.
I'd like to see the whole thing blown wide open and for Telecom to lose it's monopoly on not only Internet services but for services like International calls and the like.
Oddly enough, the Commerce Commision did call Telecom's pricing for Broad-band (ADSL) out-landish and anti-competitive.
But the thing is about the whole thing guys and maybe kiwi can back me up, TelecomNZ is owned by a lot of overseas Telcos, but I'm not sure that the CEO's of those companies actually realise just what is going on down here.
It would look bad for them, if they realised just how badly we are being screwed here.
I know a lot of very good telecoms tech's that lost thier jobs because they couldn't do an assigned job in the required time.
Most of the management couldn't give a toss.
Please let's not make this a political thing, I just want your opinion.
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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#143013 - 04/23/05 08:21 AM Re: Telecomms related Thread
djk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1269
Loc: Ireland
Trumpy,

In Ireland we've had a lot of problems since deregulation because the incumbant operator, Eircom (formerly Telecom Eireann, formerly P&T) was very slow to release its death grip on the physical local access infrastructure it inherited.

We've had "CPS" Carrier Pre-Select for a long time now and it's had a big impact on the price of calls. [CPS is where eircom must route your voice/isdn traffic over another carrier and has 3 levels 1) Local 2) National and 3)International.. you can choose 1 for all calls, or use a different operator for each type]

Then when DSL arrived, eircom charged an absolute fortune for it and local loop unbundling prices were so high that most of their compeditors were forced into a situation where they could only offer "bit stream" access. This meant that effectively they were reselling eircom's DSL products under their own brand and buying them at a wholesale rate.

Eircom was making enormous profits out of dial up (modem and ISDN) internet access that was all charged at a very steep per min rate so they were loathed to roll out DSL too quickly as it would canabalise not only the dial up access market but also their completely over priced leased line, primary rate ISDN and atm business products.

DSL launched far later than it should have been, was completely and totally over priced and only available in a select few areas. Eircom then concluded that at 129 euro / month for 512Kbps access there was no demand and thus justified postponing the roll out!

Anyway, the regulator, ComReg, forced the introduction of flat-rate dial up products and signifitantly blew the dial up market wide open. Suddenly the profit that eircom were getting from dial up connections plummeted and DSL started to see the light of day for the first time.

DSL became affordable, but prices remained amongst the highest in western europe and penitration was way way too low considering that this is one of the most computer literate countries in Europe and has more spending power per capita than practically anywhere else. Many people simply didn't see the point of paying a fortune for 512K access. All sorts of crazy technical excuses for not installing it were often given too.

Anyway, in recent times local loop unbundling has been forced through and all of a sudden we've seen an absolutely massive improvement in DSL pricing, availaiblity and speed.

Suddenly eircom and other operator's offerings quadrupled in speed, the download caps were dropped / increased massively and the prices reduced / remained the same for the faster product.

All this because one comany came into the market offering a bundled DSL/Phone product where they'd provide you with dsl and dial tone for less than half the current price of a phone line + DSL.. they were also offering 4 mbit/sec as standard!

Amazing what a bit of a market shake up can do!

Oh yeah, btw : a phone line (standard PSTN with free call fowarding / caller ID / call waiting)
comes in at : €24.18 per month
In other major currencies used on this board for comparison:
€24.18 (Euro)
UK£16.50 per month
US$31.61 per month
NS$43.23
Can$ 38.98

I'm guessing this is a lot steeper than elsewhere?

(Btw: If you're >65 or in reciept of certain welfare allowances the state pays your line rental fee + a little extra for a few free calls, so it's not impacting on the vunerable, BUT the rip off is costing the tax payer directly!) (OAPs also get free standing charge payment on power / gas bills and some free KWHs..)

You have to pay this fee to eircom at the moment, regardless of which carrier you use and you pay DSL fees on top of it. If you have a second line, it's 24.18 per month extra. (2 channel ISDN is slightly cheaper than 2 lines)

full LLU (at a reasonable price) means that other telcos can actually provide the dial tone etc.

also please note Eircom PLC is not state owned in anyway. It was floated on the stock exchange when it was privatised. Remained a publicly quoted company for a while and was then bought-out by a group of private investors (the valentia group).. then subsequently had another IPO on the stock market to raise capital.

[This message has been edited by djk (edited 04-23-2005).]

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#143014 - 04/27/05 02:42 AM Re: Telecomms related Thread
kiwi Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 347
Loc: christchurch new zealand
I too would like to see the end of Telecoms monopoly Trumpy. It is the same all throughout the South Pacific. I worked for a while in Rarotonga and Telecom Cook Islands charged $7 nz an hour for ISDN Internet. In many small Pacific Island nations, Telecom is strangling the economy and development. Shame on them.

I am also sick of my dial-up internet. Orcon you reckon ? I can't get Telstra where I am and was kinda resigning myself to Telecom. I will check Orcon out

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#143015 - 04/27/05 02:11 PM Re: Telecomms related Thread
jooles Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 98
Loc: brussels, belgium
Our situation in Belgium seems a bit different to this. The state no longer regulates Belgacom directly, but neither were they in the situation of having a total monopoly over the local loop. So they were never in the position to overcharge for services like DSL.

Since the 1970s, large networks of cable TV have been in use here, rather than UHF broadcasts. So, in the main cities like Brussels and Antwerp, there are extensive networks of good-quality coaxial wiring into every home; the TV providers like Coditel and Telenet are now offering a 4mbits/s package as an add-on to the basic TV channels, and they started offering a telephone service also.

I chose the ADSL package offered by Belgacom, the phone people, though, because it seemed better value -- had it now for coming towards 5 years. 3mbits/s, 27 euros per month, no messing around. When I signed up as an early adopter, I got a free Alcatel modem and line filters and the first month free also.

The cable TV wiring is quite distinctive and I could try to take some photos if people are interested. All coax, distinctive aluminium splitter boxes on the front of people's homes, and some pretty hairy "lash-up" solutions where the main has to jump from one building to another. It's pretty good, though -- 50 channels, plus FM radio, available in French, Dutch and Flemish, German, Turkish, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Greek, American, and cartoons too

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#143016 - 04/27/05 03:56 PM Re: Telecomms related Thread
djk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1269
Loc: Ireland
Jooles,

In Ireland the cable networks date from a similar era and have the same aluminum junction boxes and cable mains running along the front of houses jumping across side entrances from building to building or even along back garden walls.

They also carried FM radio as well as a mix of free-to-air and encrypted tv channels in plain old PAL.

However, the networks were mostly never designed for real 2-way communication.
When NTL bought out the cable network in Dublin, Galway, Waterford and a few other places, they promised to upgrade the infrastructure to provide broadband and telephony but it never happened. In fact, they ran out of cash so badly that most of the network wasn't even upgraded to digital tv!!

Our other major cable company, Chorus, was in similar dire financial straits and failed to do anything to update their creeking old cable networks.

In the mean time, Sky Digital launched a service specially targeted at the Irish market carrying all of the local network television (RTE1, RTE2, TV3 and TG4) as well as BBC 1 and 2 Northern Ireland.. along with the same vast number of other channels carried in their UK offering. They also launched Sky News Ireland and broadcast versions of Sky One, Sky Sports and MTV and others that carry Irish ads only. The system, being digital, offered sound and picture quality that was suitable for modern widescreen / home cinema systems.

Meanwhile the cable companies didn't really react at all. The cork cable network, for the most part, couldn't even provide stereo sound and suffered from fuzzy pictures and the odd crackle due to its 1970s US cable encryption systems!

Anyway, the net result was Sky's offering was light years ahead of the cable cos... they lost vast number of customers and lost money like there was no tomorrow. Both of their parent companies went into extreme financial difficulty and the Irish operations were cash starved and have pretty much never recovered.

Cable telephony and internet access is only available in a very select few areas. In other places it was launched, then shut down again due to the high cost of upgrading the system.

So, the regulator has had to concentrate on opening-up the phone network to as much competition as possible.

Some new housing developments and apartment blocks that are near MAN "Metropolitan Area Networks" (publically funded fiber systems) are now wired for direct-to-home fiber systems and get fully inteactive tv, video on demand and very high speed internet access from Smart Telecom, but it's limited to a few areas.

NTL and Chorus have been upgrading bits of their cable nets but it's a very slow process due to the sheer scale of the cable systems (they pass almost all urban homes).



[This message has been edited by djk (edited 04-27-2005).]

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#143017 - 04/27/05 05:35 PM Re: Telecomms related Thread
Alan Belson Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 1801
Loc: Mayenne N. France
France- 25 euro pcm for 1024Kbps unlimited access. For 30 euro pcm I would get ditto + all telephone calls in metropoltan France free. We only have ADSL here, in the middle of nowhere, because our nearest town's Maire is 'going places' politically- he must have pulled a few wires! Boom! Boom!

Alan
_________________________
Wood work but can't!

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#143018 - 04/28/05 04:10 AM Re: Telecomms related Thread
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Thanks for your good comments guys.
I've got the router and it came with 3 free filters!.
Just waiting now for Telecom to enable my line at the exchange for DSL, I've been told it could take up to 3-5 business days for this to occur.
That's the hitch Kiwi, Orcon is just re-selling Jetstream, but without the huge install fee and a flat rate plan.
Problem is you are still getting the service over "Telecom's" lines.
Just ask anyone outside of a city or large town what they think of Telecom, and watch out!.
Oh and by the way, I found out today at work that the wiring between my house and the exchange will only support up to 256kbps, this was from a local Telecomms tech too.
That really made my day. GRRRR
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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#143019 - 04/28/05 04:18 AM Re: Telecomms related Thread
Gloria Offline
Member

Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 395
Loc: Budapest, Hungary
I'm really expecting to talk to you on line and see you on the webcam the same time!
I'm sure we'll have great fun!

It is really a wonder how we can establish and keep friendships alive no matter "how high a mountain, how deep s the sea"
_________________________
The world is full of beauty if the heart is full of love

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#143020 - 04/28/05 06:43 AM Re: Telecomms related Thread
djk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1269
Loc: Ireland
Just to give you an idea of the pricing here in Ireland:
(I'd like to hear how much it costs elsewhere)

Smart Telecom:

2mbit/sec (including line rental) for €35 per month from one of the providers here. (They fully unbundle your line and provide everything including the PSTN phone service)

eircom's residential packages:
"eircom broadband"

Free connection + free 2 months subscription
(no contract, they will remove take it out if you don't like it)

1Mbit/sec - €39.99
2Mbit/sec - €54.45
(Line rental is not included)

BT Ireland:


1mbit/sec + line rental : €49
2mbit/sec + line rental : €57

*Self-install is cheap / free.
** Engineer install is about €130 and is required if you have a monitored alarm or an ISDN line. (They install an NTU/Splitter combination unit that provides a secure filtered line to the monitored alarm)


[This message has been edited by djk (edited 04-28-2005).]

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#143021 - 05/04/05 03:41 PM Re: Telecomms related Thread
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Well,
Finally got the tech at Telecom to change my phone line over at the exchange this morning.
I'm now ADSL-able!.
It's not a huge leap in speed, but it was better than what I had.
Now lets wait for the first bill.
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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