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#141852 - 11/05/04 11:12 AM Beating the dead horse  
C-H  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,497
Stockholm, Sweden


Test Equipment:
Large Selection of Test Equipment For Electrical, HVAC, Test & Measurement
Large Selection of Test Equipment For Electrical, HVAC, Test & Measurement

#141853 - 11/05/04 09:14 PM Re: Beating the dead horse  
uksparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 200
UK
Thanks C-H...most interesting...! [Linked Image]


If hindsight were foresight, we'd all be millionaires!

#141854 - 11/06/04 05:39 PM Re: Beating the dead horse  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Whatever the benefits may be, I don't see any country rushing to adopt the IEC's standard. Even if one or two places did, unless everywhere else changes as well they'll be no better off anyway.


#141855 - 11/06/04 06:19 PM Re: Beating the dead horse  
jooles  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 93
brussels, belgium
Quite a few questionable entries there, in the plug/socket tables.

The nominal voltage here in Belgium is no longer 220v it is now 230; and the socket type is type 3 the same as for France, with the earthing pin, instead of type 2 with the clasp-type earthing contacts as used in Germany.

Type 2 is in common use in the Netherlands. Never come across a type 4 there.

In Luxembourg they use type 2 sockets not type 4,

I normally seen type 2 used in Portugal, not type 4.


#141856 - 11/06/04 07:12 PM Re: Beating the dead horse  
marcspages  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 48
London, UK
My answer to travel woes (especially as many times there is a shed-load of kit going with too, all needing power!).
http://www.marcspages.co.uk/tech/?6100

M.


#141857 - 11/06/04 08:04 PM Re: Beating the dead horse  
uksparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 200
UK
I suppose we have adopted one IEC standard; the cable powering your computer ( and many a kettle [Linked Image] ) for instance...

As for the rest...


If hindsight were foresight, we'd all be millionaires!

#141858 - 11/06/04 10:17 PM Re: Beating the dead horse  
djk  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,237
Ireland
The IEC proposal doesn't really make a lot of sense to be quite honest and I can see absolutely no advantage over schuko.

The ungrounded plug is still unpolarised. While the grounded plug is polarised, why not just adopt the French system!? It's polarised too and fully compatable with exsisting CEE 7/7

----

Looking through those tables the vast majority of european countries already use B2/B3 outlets. As does much of the rest of the 230V world.

The CEE 7/7 plug already provides a great sollution. It works seamlessly with both French and German earthing systems and works across pretty much all of Europe except a few odd-ball countries.

-----------

Denmark: (3-pin grounded plug & Europlug)
The exsisting system is dangerous as you can plug CEE 7/7 grounded plugs into the outlets leaving appliences dangerously unearthed.

Should simply move to schuko or if they're fussy about polarisation of their Class I appliences use the French system.

Italy:
The exsisting system is no better / worse than schuko. Outlets that accept both Italian and Schuko plugs are already available. They should switch.

Switzerland:
The system's got polarised grounded plugs ... The French system also provides polarised grounded plugs but full compatability with CEE 7/7... Why not just change over?

UK & Ireland.

Install schuko or French outlets with integrated fuses either 13 or 16A which would make them compatable with the ring circuits.

----

Why should the rest of Europe standardise something that apart from a few exceptions is already standardised?!

You really don't need a bag full of adaptors while traveling around Europe.. from eastern russia to western france is all CEE 7/7 compatable

& All except the UK / IRL will accept europlug ungrounded devices.

....

The IEC plug also seems suspiciously like the current Swiss system.... I wonder if their being based in Switzerland had anything to do with that?


Outside of Europe it might make more sense as you've a complete mess of various current and obsolete British standards, European standards, Aus/NZ systems along with NEMA 120V outlets being used for 230V.



[This message has been edited by djk (edited 11-06-2004).]


#141859 - 11/07/04 10:21 AM Re: Beating the dead horse  
uksparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 200
UK
Quote
& All except the UK / IRL...


Nothing new there then...! [Linked Image]


If hindsight were foresight, we'd all be millionaires!

#141860 - 11/07/04 08:51 PM Re: Beating the dead horse  
djk  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,237
Ireland
Actually, looking at that IEC plug the current recessed CEE 7/7 compatable outlets are actually superiour in so far as they don't require sheathed pins on grounded and larger appliences. (i.e. where 16A schuko or contour plugs are used) This surely means that you've got a bigger surface area of pin to connect with and less chance of poor connections / hot pins.

BS1363 plugs have this problem! As the socket outlets, particularly the cheaper ones, get older the spring-contacts start making less contact with plugs resulting in hot pins and even damage to the outlets / plugs.

This may be more common in Ireland where the voltage is lower (typically reads 220 - 228V) In the UK it's just that little bit higher.#

Also, I can see no problem with a "decent" sized plug. At least people have no problems pulling them out / getting a grip on them and they're sturdy enough to support the large number of plug-in xformers and other devices that we all use thesedays!


#141861 - 11/08/04 05:14 AM Re: Beating the dead horse  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
The contact area is a good point. If you strip down some of the cheap BS1363 (13A) outlets you'll find that the actual contact area is quite small, which makes something of a contrast with the huge plug pins.

Some of the old BS546 5A sockets actually seem to have a far larger contact area when a plug is inserted than the cheaper modern BS1363 types.


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