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#13888 - 09/13/02 08:22 AM GFCI breakers?
Reel-Break Offline
Member
Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 178
Loc: nc
I`ve been seeing lots of concerns over older gfci rec failing but allowing power to be used unprotected.My question is is it the same for older GFCI breakers.Also One of the ecm code questions was about the bundling of wires when you go through web beams with the 1 1/2 holes and you run several wires in them how are you guys dealing with this.Thanks in advance.
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#13889 - 09/13/02 06:24 PM Re: GFCI breakers?
derater Offline
Member
Registered: 03/30/02
Posts: 179
You got a 'second' on those questions from
here;esp. the 'bundling' issue.On GFI packaging,what indicates the evolved units?

[This message has been edited by derater (edited 09-13-2002).]
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#13890 - 09/16/02 09:48 AM Re: GFCI breakers?
Reel-Break Offline
Member
Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 178
Loc: nc
Hey guys need some help here especialy on the bundle deal any suggestions.
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#13891 - 09/16/02 10:16 AM Re: GFCI breakers?
sparky66wv Offline
Member
Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2232
Loc: West Virginia
If you bundle 10 to 20 current carrying conductors, the derating factor is 50%. If you have no more than 6 outlets at 180 VA each on the circuit, you would still be OK for derating with out increasing the size of the conductors (assuming #12 wire and 20A circuit).

Reference:

310.15(B)(2)(a)

Note: EGC's and Multiwire "true" neutrals are exempt from the conductor count.

<disclaimer>
This is how I interpret it.
</disclaimer>

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 09-16-2002).]
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#13892 - 09/16/02 12:57 PM Re: GFCI breakers?
George Offline
Member
Registered: 02/23/02
Posts: 375
It is difficult to claim that the 1/2" thick web is really 24" long (the min conduit length that requires derating).

You can run all the MN that you can pull thru holes in the web without derating.

This issue has been debated a lot. I suggest you ask the local inspector what he would "like."
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#13893 - 09/16/02 01:07 PM Re: GFCI breakers?
sparky66wv Offline
Member
Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2232
Loc: West Virginia
That would be true if you spread the cables out between the holes an undetermined amount, then I would agree, however, if the cables remain in the same general spacing from each other between the webs as compared to through them, then derating would apply.

Would it not?
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#13894 - 09/16/02 06:01 PM Re: GFCI breakers?
txsparky Offline
Member
Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 552
Loc: Magnolia,.Texas U.S.A.
What about in a panel where everything is tie wrapped nice and neat?Should you derate?THis can easily be more than 24 inches.
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#13895 - 09/16/02 06:15 PM Re: GFCI breakers?
sparky66wv Offline
Member
Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2232
Loc: West Virginia
According to Code?

Yes.

According to general practices and leniency of the AHJ's (if any AHJ at all) then? No.

I guess it's a lot easier being a tough inspector than it is to be the poor contractor caught up in the Catch 22s...

100% Code Compliant... Is it possible?
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