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#138457 - 09/11/03 05:36 PM Secondhand Appliances?
Trumpy Offline


Member
Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8211
Loc: SI,New Zealand
In your country,
Are there any laws regarding the Electrical Safety of Second-hand Electrical Appliances, when sold through, say a Second-hand dealer or even a private sale?
If the appliance is only to be used for a collectors collection and it is faulty, how is it marked to say that the equipment has a fault?.
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#138458 - 09/12/03 03:29 AM Re: Secondhand Appliances?
PaulCornwall Offline
Member
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 112
Loc: England
not that i know of..
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#138459 - 09/12/03 03:47 AM Re: Secondhand Appliances?
pauluk Offline
Member
Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7520
Loc: Norfolk, England
This could start something!

As with all shops, places selling second-hand goods (Op-Shops, Junk shops, Thrift Stores, call them what you will) come under the auspices of the Trading Standards Authority.

Here's their guidance leaflet about electrical items:
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/bglitem.cgi?file=BADV018-1111.txt

I'll give you a chance to read the leaflet before I climb up onto my soapbox.
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#138460 - 09/12/03 07:44 AM Re: Secondhand Appliances?
SvenNYC Offline
Member
Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 1691
Loc: New York City
No such law in the USA, as far as I know. That's a good thing.

Otherwise, I'd have no radio collection to speak of!! :-)

Make sure to inspect the appliance for basic electrical integrity (intact plug, cord, cabinet) before buying, is all.

If the cord's chewed up, replace it when you get home -- had to do that with a clock radio I bought some time back. The flex was totally worn bare at the point where it enters the plastic housing. These things are usually easy to do.

I just skimmed through the laws. Doesn't seem AS bad as most people (including me) make it out to be. I don't see anything in here that would prevent a store from selling a used (in good shape) clock radio or table lamp for a few quid.

Yeah....it's a GOOD thing that the electric fire you buy has a grill in front and that it come with a plug.

Although what happens when you want to buy a damaged appliance to cannibalize for parts to repair yours? I do that all the time. What do you do in that case?

And who in blazes (sorry) would want to buy a USED electric blanket? YUCKKK

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 09-12-2003).]
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#138461 - 09/12/03 01:00 PM Re: Secondhand Appliances?
Trumpy Offline


Member
Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8211
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Paul,
Thanks for that link.
I had to laugh when I read this:
Quote:
The old red, black and green colours are undesirable as they make the product unsafe and so illegal

Since when has the actual colour of the wires, made a difference to the safety level of an appliance?.
Sven,
I hear you there about using a second-hand Electric blanket, I can't imagine anything worse!.
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#138462 - 09/12/03 03:15 PM Re: Secondhand Appliances?
pauluk Offline
Member
Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7520
Loc: Norfolk, England
I know -- It's absolutely laughable. How could having the old color code make anything unsafe?

They can't even argue that somebody might not understand the old colors and wire the plug incorrectly, because they also specify that you must fit a plug! Besides, even though red/black/green for flexes went out over 30 years ago, most people here still understand it perfectly due the continued use of red and black in fixed house cables.

The part about fitting a new-style BS1363 plug with shielded pins I feel is going too far as well. Sure these plugs offer greater protection, but there's nothing wrong with the old plugs.

Some of these things seem to be left wide open to interpretation by the various Trading Standards offices from across the country. How much of this could actually be legally enforced if someone queried it, I'm not sure. Some districts have already had cases in other areas where it's clear that local inspectors have way overstepped the mark by trying to impose restrictions when they have no authority to do so.

Most junk shops get around a lot of these problems by labeling older equipment as "Collector's item only" or "Not for use" to cover themselves (sgain, what the legal position is, I'm not absolutely certain).

Unfortunately, they sometimes resort to cutting off the cord and throwing it away to make sure the device can't be used without repair. I find this particularly annoying.

Sven mentioned old radios. There are many people who want to restore an old set to as near to its original condition as possible. Disposing of a perfectly serviceable cord means another item to replace, and some types are getting quite hard to find.

I'm not suggesting anyone should continue to use a frayed old cord which is obviously in bad shape (e.g. cotton and rubber 1930s cord with brittle insulation), but there are PVC-insulated cords from the early 1950s which are perfectly all right. Some of those were made with matching gold or brown outer sheaths, and can be very hard to get hold off these days. Deliberately chopping off and disposing of such a cord is, in my not-so-humble-opinion, an act of vandalism!

{OK, rant over for now... }
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#138463 - 09/12/03 03:49 PM Re: Secondhand Appliances?
Trumpy Offline


Member
Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8211
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Paul,
You mentioned that cotton-insulated rubber flex.
We've got miles of it upstairs at work, in the Electrical store (read:Museum).
I'd agree that replacing a perfectly good plug for one with shielded pins is ludicrious and for what, especially if you haven't got kids.
Quote:
Besides, even though red/black/green for flexes went out over 30 years ago, most people here still understand it perfectly due the continued use of red and black in fixed house cables.

This is off-topic, but, red and black makes sense, it's just like a battery, red is your positive, black is your negative.
I remember when I first saw a piece of flex with the new colours and thought why?.
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Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin
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#138464 - 09/12/03 04:07 PM Re: Secondhand Appliances?
pauluk Offline
Member
Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7520
Loc: Norfolk, England
Just what we're used to I guess. C-H and Tex grew up with red=ground, so I imagine our old code seems as strange to them as blue for neutral seemed to us at first.

By the way, on the positive/negative colors, in the days of d.c. mains in this country half the houses in a street would have been black=positive, red=negative!

The 3-wire 200/400 to 250/500V distribution came down to 2-wire services to each house, half of the homes being tapped from the positive "outer" and the other half on the negative.

The internal wiring always used black as the neutral hence houses run from the negative side of the network had their live, red wires at minus 200/250V with respect to earth.


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 09-12-2003).]
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#138465 - 09/12/03 08:37 PM Re: Secondhand Appliances?
SvenNYC Offline
Member
Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 1691
Loc: New York City
Quote:
You mentioned that cotton-insulated rubber flex.
We've got miles of it upstairs at work, in the Electrical store (read:Museum).


Trumpy,

Do you have any old Aussie bakelite plugs with the open fronts to go with that cotton insulated flex?

Fabric-covered flex (not UL Listed by the way) is making a comeback.

The new stuff is covered in a rayon "jacket". Think the conductors are insulated with either rubber or thermoplastic. Expensive stuff (80 cents a foot in a couple of stores I go to)....and seems very chintzy to me...

I will stick with convenvional (UL Listed) thermoplastic zip cord and double-jacketed heavy duty flex for my appliances, thank you.

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 09-12-2003).]
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#138466 - 09/12/03 09:48 PM Re: Secondhand Appliances?
Trumpy Offline


Member
Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8211
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Sven,
Yeah mate!, it's ALL upstairs.
There's thing up there that are so scary, I don't even want to touch them!.
There's a old Refrigeration panel up there that looks like it's from the 50's.
Ever want some flex or anything to match an old radio(all 600V/1000V insulated), just give us a bell, no charge!, just trying to get rid of it.
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Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin
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