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#138225 - 08/23/03 05:22 AM Just came across schuko in a new installation here in Ireland
djk Offline
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Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1237
Loc: Ireland
Just stumbled across a new hotel that had installed both IS 411 (BS1363 sockets) and schuko (CEE 7/IV) along side them on MK modular units.

The IS411 BS1363 was on one side a BS1362 fuse carrier with 13 amp fuse feeding the schuko socket.

The hotel apparently thought this was safer than having tourists wedging their laptop and hairdryer plugs into the sockets.

Btw: the standard numbers used here: (inforced by various Statutory instruments

IS 401 or IS 401/A = BS1363
IS 411 = The BS1363 socket (switched/unswitched)

IS 180 covers Schuko (CEE 7/IV:1967 & Ammendments)) & BS546 (only 3 pin systems) With some of those installations still in use it is obviously important to ensure up-to-date standards are observed.

Here's the actual peice of legislation that regulates all electrical connectors for domestic use here in Ireland (Other than IS401/411 = BS1363)
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI526Y1997.html

(quite short)


[This message has been edited by djk (edited 08-23-2003).]
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#138226 - 08/25/03 04:20 AM Re: Just came across schuko in a new installation here in Ireland
pauluk Offline
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Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7520
Loc: Norfolk, England
It sounds as though the hotel management had quite a good idea there, and it would probably also eliminate many calls to the desk from foreign visitors asking if they had any BS1363-Schuko adapters!

I know when I was traveling around Ireland in 1998 I came upon quite a lot of Continental visitors, mostly Dutch and German. With Ireland becoming a more common destination for vacations, do you think you might start seeing more of this dual BS1363/Schuko installations?
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#138227 - 08/25/03 05:20 AM Re: Just came across schuko in a new installation here in Ireland
Texas_Ranger Offline
Member
Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2391
Loc: Vienna, Austria
Reminds me of some geniuses in the UK delegation at last year's EYP (European Youth Parliament) in Turin. They brought a BS1363 to Schuko adaptor and wanted to use their hairdryers or whatever. No idea what they thought about Italy and sockets...
Well, the youth hostel had combo sockets (Italian/Schuko side by side) so I guess they finally got to use it, but anyway it was a weird idea to take a Schuko adaptor to Italy.
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#138228 - 08/25/03 12:19 PM Re: Just came across schuko in a new installation here in Ireland
djk Offline
Member
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1237
Loc: Ireland
I don't know if it's likely to become more common. Although, considering the effort most hotels make to install data ports, WiFi etc it is possible.

There would be a problem, however, with installing NEMA outlets stepped down to 110V as they are not covered under legislation here. Only Schuko / BS546 are regulated for and other EU country's standards provided they can be proven to meet the safety standards of an Irish system. Non-EU standards aren't allowed.

I've seen BS1363 & French combinations in a holiday villa in France too.

With the new standard sized moduels and easy availability of such system's it's becomming much easier to make up custom combinations.
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#138229 - 08/25/03 03:33 PM Re: Just came across schuko in a new installation here in Ireland
pauluk Offline
Member
Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7520
Loc: Norfolk, England
Quote:
provided they can be proven to meet the safety standards of an Irish system

I'm playing Devil's Advocate again on this, but who decides whether they meet the same level of safety as an Irish system?

It's rather like the new Building Regs. going through here at the moment referring to conformity with BS7671 (IEE Regs.) or the Regs. used in any other EU country. It seems that this sort of wishy-washy wording is leaving things wide open to varying interpretations by different people.

By the way, on the NEMA point, there are no electrical inspections for existing residential buildings in Ireland, are there?

So if I bought a house there and decided to rip out the existing system, install a large 220 to 120/240V transformer and wire the house with NEMA devices according to the NEC, nobody could stop me, right?


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 08-25-2003).]
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#138230 - 08/25/03 04:32 PM Re: Just came across schuko in a new installation here in Ireland
djk Offline
Member
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1237
Loc: Ireland
No, not unless they're public buildings where people work.

BUT it is however, illegal to sell, manufacture, display or store them.

You could do what you like in a house but in a hotel you'd be screwed!

The only way you can supply 110V to sockets legally is to use keyed BS546 plugs or IEC connectors (the most common way)

Pretty much: BS1363 is the standard
Schuko and BS546 are acceptable alternatives
and other EU standards are acceptable but only in so far as they're not specfically outlawed and only because they have to be under some EU directive or because we're trying to be Euro-friendly.

Oz/China/Argentina is not legal nor is NEMA or Israeli.

It's 100% illegal to sell an applience with anything other than a plug conforming to IS401 / IS401/A (i.e. BS1363) though. Unless, it's a shaver or similar device intended for connection to a specialised bathroom socket which should be fitted with a Europlug conforming to IS EN (whatever Europlug is)

OR where a Europlug/CEE 7/IV is fitted an appropriate adaptor which can only be removed with the use of a tool is fitted making it suitable for engagement with an IS 411 socket (BS1363)
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#138231 - 08/26/03 06:37 AM Re: Just came across schuko in a new installation here in Ireland
SvenNYC Offline
Member
Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 1691
Loc: New York City
DJK said:
Quote:
BUT it is however, illegal to sell, manufacture, display or store them.


WOW! That's gotta be even more stringent than the UK. I know of two electronics outfits in the UK (Maplins and Radio Spares) that sell 1-15 (two pin) NEMA plugs -- little plastic ones for light-duty uses such as lamps and radios.

These are most likely intended for hobbyists and vintage-radio repairmen/collectors who might have one or two radios intended for American markets in their collection.

You don't want to fit a typical 220 volt type plug onto a 110-volt only appliance. Would make for interesting fireworks were the device to land in the hands of some untutored person.

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 08-26-2003).]
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#138232 - 08/26/03 09:21 AM Re: Just came across schuko in a new installation here in Ireland
pauluk Offline
Member
Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7520
Loc: Norfolk, England
Quote:
BUT it is however, illegal to sell, manufacture, display or store them.


Wow, and double wow! Do you mean it would be illegal for me to store a box of American receptacles in my own cupboard? Or does this apply only to shops?

As for displaying, what if somebody wanted to put up a display board with a "This is what's used in America" banner? Would that actually be illegal?

Sven's point about old radios is a good one. I too have quite a lot of 120V electronic equipment, and I use NEMA connectors. It seems the logical thing to do, and a proper NEMA 1-15 plug an old American radio adds to its authenticity as well as preventing nasty accidents with 220/240V!
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#138233 - 08/26/03 04:51 PM Re: Just came across schuko in a new installation here in Ireland
djk Offline
Member
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1237
Loc: Ireland
You can do what you like with them if they are labled individually as being not suitable for use in this state (Republic of Ireland) or the UK.

(At least under the legislation anyway)

They're pretty tough with this stuff though.

It would also be illegal to sell something that is incapable of operating at 230V 50Hz unless you made that fact VERY clear.

You step into legal problems where you actually install NEMA outlets (even at 110/120V) in a building.

It's not that we're anti-american or anything. The legislation pretty much only allows for BS1363 with Schuko and BS546 being acceptable alternatives but clearly not normal.

I'd rather have it that way than a mess of various connectors out there and endless adaptors. One simple safe system.

110V wouldn't exactly be seen very often here though so I doubt it's an issue!

Old US radios would be exempt if they were labled as not being for use in Ireland.



[This message has been edited by djk (edited 08-26-2003).]
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#138234 - 08/26/03 05:05 PM Re: Just came across schuko in a new installation here in Ireland
djk Offline
Member
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 1237
Loc: Ireland
for those of you who are legally minded:

A person shall not manufacture, assemble, store, supply, offer to supply or exhibit any—
     (a) socket-outlet including a socket-outlet complying with the provisions of the Industrial Research and Standards Act (Section 44) (Electrical Mains Socket-Outlets) Order, 1973 (S.I. No. 322 of 1973), or
     (b) plug which is intended for insertion into a socket-outlet of a type specified in paragraph (a) of this Regulation, or
(c) adaptor, plug-similar device or any device incorporating a socket-outlet, unless—

(i) such socket-outlet complies with the provisions of I.S. 411:1997 safety requirements for 13 A switched and unswitched socket-outlets, or
(ii) such plug complies with the provisions of I.S./EN 50075, or
(iii) such adaptor complies with the provisions of I.S. 421:1977 safety requirement for Adaptors for 13A Plugs and sockets,
or
(iv) such socket-outlet, plug, plug-similar device or device incorporating a socket-outlet complies with the safety requirements set out in the Second Schedule to these Regulations,
or
(v) such manufacturer, assembler or seller can show that such socket-outlet, plug or plug-similar device complies with the provisions of the standards specified in column (2) of the Table to this Regulation opposite the mention of the socket-outlet, plug and plug-similar device in column (1) of the said Table.
(the table)
  As specified in sub-clause 4.1 of Irish Standard 180:1973
British Standard 546:1950 including Supplement No. 1 and amendments 1953, 1961, 1969, 1977, 1982, 1987 and 1989.
 
     As specified in sub-clause 4.3 of Irish Standard 180:1973  
CEE Publication 7:1963 (Standard Sheets IV and VII) and modifications 1972, 1973, 1974 and 1981.

     Plug Similar Device.
 
Relevant clauses in I.S. 401:1997, I.S. 411:1997, I.S. 421:1997 or BS 5733:1995 and in the standards indicated above which correspond with its plug-similarity.

EXCLUDED ELECTRICAL DEVICES

1. Any plug, socket or adaptor which incorporates any other electrical device (other than a fuse link, switch or indicator light).
2. Any plug or socket forming part of a ceiling-rose connector (that is to say a connector designed to hold up over-head electric lighting fittings).
3. Any plug or socket forming part of a luminaire comprising a track system for electric lights and their fittings.
4. Any non-I.S. 401:1997 plug supplied loose which is manufactured to comply with the safety provisions of IEC 884-1 and which is marked with or accompanied by a warning that it is not suitable for connections to a mains socket in the State or the United Kingdom.
5. Any non-rewirable or any moulded-on Europlug (that is to say any plug conforming with IS EN 50075) which is designed for the purpose of connecting to a shaver supply unit conforming to IS/EN 60742:1990, Isolating Transformers and Safety Isolating Transformers Requirements.
6. Any travel adaptor (that is to say any adaptor which enables a plug designed for use in the State or the United Kingdom to be connected to a socket used outside the State and the United Kingdom).

for the whole peice of legislation (about 2 pages A4, quite easy to read) http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI526Y1997.html


[This message has been edited by djk (edited 08-26-2003).]
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