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#135400 - 01/05/03 05:19 AM Apprentice training
lyledunn Offline
Member

Registered: 06/30/02
Posts: 159
Loc: N.Ireland
The current UK training system for apprentices is, I believe, in need of change. It is very easy to criticise something without forwarding a reasonable alternative. May I ask you contractors out there if you feel that your apprentices are a useful commodity in your enterprise? Do you feel that they might be better at work every day rather than being released for up to two days per week? Should the apprentice himself be actively seeking theoretical training in his own time and at his own expense?
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#135401 - 01/05/03 07:30 PM Re: Apprentice training
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
As a one-man show of many years standing, I have to confess that I don't really know how present-day apprenticeships are arranged.

As most of our non-U.K. members won't know either, if you have the time how about posting a brief outline of the current system?

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#135402 - 01/05/03 09:32 PM Re: Apprentice training
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Lyle,
I can really only guess,at how the apprenticeship system works in the UK.
One thing that I must say, having done 3 of them myself, the need for trainees in any trade, to get a good grounding in the basics of the trade, regardless of what the trade is,is paramount, without these, the apprentice will either fail or kill themselves,as happened over here recently!.
And I believe that the employer should pay for this, as they are getting the real benefit of the trainee being trained to higher levels= higher charge out rate.
We are only just having apprentices taken on over here, with a 10 year hiatus caused by a number of factors, one of them political, but we won't go there.
It's just good to see lots of new faces in the industry, no matter how good they are,
I will always encourage them, after all, we were all in their shoes, at one time.
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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#135403 - 01/06/03 03:44 PM Re: Apprentice training
lyledunn Offline
Member

Registered: 06/30/02
Posts: 159
Loc: N.Ireland
Paul,
Very briefly; prospective apprentice must attain certain minimum academic performance from school. I do mean minimum! They must also find an employer. A Training contract is then signed between apprentice and employer. Here in the North of Ireland funding is chanelled through a body called the Electrical Training Trust. ETT is also responsible for placing the apprentice with a Training Provider, these are mostly Colleges of Further Education ("techs").
First year apprentice will attend college for two days per week where basic practical and theoretical skills are taught. The apprentice will also keep a log book and he will also need to sit 4 exam modules ( your granny could pass these!).There are also a number of "Key skills" that need to be addressed, simple maths and communication studies - what they should have learned in school!
In second year, college for 1day per week for mostly theory.Logbook and another 4 exam modules.
Third and fourth year will require apprentices to attend only six evening sessions each lasting two hours over the year. This is to complete and assess logbooks. During this time the apprentice must attend a 3-day skills test at ETT. This is known as the AM2 test.If all is well with this and their logbook assessment and assuming all exams are passed then the apprentice can be signed off and will have attaine an NVQ Level 3.
_________________________
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lyle dunn

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#135404 - 01/06/03 08:57 PM Re: Apprentice training
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Lyle,
What sort of training is available, to Electricians over in Ireland, that want to upgrade thier skills, after they have finished thier Trade Exams?.
In things like PLC's,Industrial Controls,
and other such things.
Just wondering.
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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#135405 - 01/07/03 05:23 AM Re: Apprentice training
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
Hmm.. It sounds as though you're not too impressed with the level of achievement required to pass the exams. I guess this goes along with the general feeling in the U.K. these days that exams have gotten that much easier and standards are falling.

I remember looking at some C&G sample papers a couple of years ago and thinking that they didn't seem to really require detailed knowledge of the subject.

I'm also reminded of when I joined the newly privatized British Telecom as an apprentice in 1982. If I recall correctly, entry requirements then included at least O-level English & Mathematics, plus one or two other O-levels as a minimum. Maybe I was terribly naive at 16, but I'd assumed that the other apprentices starting with me would have had at least enough interest in their chosen career to have taken the time to learn a few basics under their own initiative. I was wrong. It struck me as odd that many of them didn't even seem to want to learn more than they absolutely had to.

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#135406 - 01/07/03 10:33 PM Re: Apprentice training
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Paul,
That's a real shame,when I was doing my apprenticeships, I tried to find out as much as I could, much to the annoyance of my teachers, the endless questions,etc.
Glad that I did ask, in hindsight, I would never have picked up half of what I did.
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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#135407 - 01/09/03 06:36 PM Re: Apprentice training
sanUK Offline
Member

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 44
Loc: Scotland
Hi all, new here

When i did my time it was 4 * 6 week block release`s at college for the first year (2 1/2 days doing practical work) the rest theory and in the second year 4 * 4 week blocks back in college (all theory).

Then in the 3rd year near the end i took my AM2, The apprentice asked the employer to take the final test, I was holding back, was scared at the time looking back dunno why

The AM2 was a 3 1/2 day test i did it in 1 1/2 was a breeze But the firm i worked for was mainly industrial stuff.

A while ago (2000) i was talking to an electrician who had just passed his AM2 and he was saying how easy it was.

Breif outline of AM2 when i did it (93),

Each person had a cubicle with a few things fitted, Main DFB, some trunking, motor, motor starter, Pendant. cant remember the rest.

And the test basically consisted of you fitting in all the remaining bits,

20 & 25 mm conduit, cable tray, Trunking + fabricating a reducer 3" to 2", pyro, i think thats all.

Then you had to wire it all/ connect it all, then test it before final switch on.

Also while you were wiring up your cubicle you got pulled of it i think 4 times, for other tests, Glanding in a SWA, Fault finding & Isolation proceedures, wire up a nurses call unit.

Skipping back to the Electrician i talked to saying how easy it was, well he said that now (2000) theres no installation work at all, everythings done for you, he just had to connect all the cables up.

So thats my experience of being an Apprentice. Good times were those

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#135408 - 01/10/03 09:44 AM Re: Apprentice training
lyledunn Offline
Member

Registered: 06/30/02
Posts: 159
Loc: N.Ireland
Trumpy,
Additional training is available in PLCs, CAD, Inspection and Testing, Alarm systems, Portable appliance testing, BS7671 etc. There is reasonable interest across the board. The industry is very dynamic and most operatives are well aware of the benifits of tailored training. I teach all above courses accept PLC and I must say that is an absolute delight as compared with apprentices who often have as much interest as a dead slug.

[This message has been edited by lyledunn (edited 01-10-2003).]
_________________________
regards

lyle dunn

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#135409 - 01/12/03 12:54 PM Re: Apprentice training
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
Hi there San -- Welcome to ECN!

It sounds as though just about all aspects of examinations have become easier and requiring less real knowledge over recent years.

Re the portable appliance testing, this has become quite a big thing in the U.K. In fact regular appliance tests are mandated by Health & Safety legislation in work places now with results required to be logged.

Unfortunately, I have come across one or two people carrying out the tests "robot like," filling in the results in the book but without any real understanding of what the measurements mean.

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