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#134843 - 12/05/02 02:52 AM Live-Work?  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,211
SI,New Zealand
How often are you required to work "Live"?
Where you cannot isolate your power source,
or cannot find the CB, because it is not marked.
How do you do your work, when a circuit is required to be kept on?.
Computers, to a certain extent, have caused this.
Your input please- [Linked Image]


Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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#134844 - 12/05/02 01:03 PM Re: Live-Work?  
Texas_Ranger  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,392
Vienna, Austria
>How do you do your work, when a circuit is required to be kept on?.
As careful as possible! This is one reason why I prefer strip connectors to wirenuts, you cann add or remove wires without completely taking apart the connections!
More or less the only occasion where I work hot is when the lights are on the circuit I'm working on and I don't want to sit in the dark.


#134845 - 12/05/02 02:39 PM Re: Live-Work?  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
There's not usually much need to work live in the residential systems that form most of my work. Live panel changeovers is an exception, as people around here want to avoid the added cost of a call-out from the PoCo.


#134846 - 12/06/02 01:50 AM Re: Live-Work?  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,211
SI,New Zealand
The exception to this rule, for my type of work, would be 3phase work, especially where
there is lots of Earthed metal around.
Just makes the work so much slower and more
sort of "thinking work", your every move counts.
Recently hooked up a building for the local power board, using 50mm2 wires (3Phase), live,took me 3 Hours.
Blew out my companies quote for the job, but,
I'm still here to talk about it. [Linked Image]


Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

#134847 - 12/06/02 01:15 PM Re: Live-Work?  
classicsat  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 456
I had to replace a main breaker one (crumbly
old Stab-Lock)


#134848 - 12/06/02 09:45 PM Re: Live-Work?  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,303
in the US we have OSHA, and what is refered to as 'sub part S' , we also have NFPA 70E.

sub-part S can be found in OSHA's on line page.

NFPA 70E can be had for about $30 here, it is a concise document , one i wish was at least refered to in my apprenticeship.

In a nutshell, both detail the basics of live work, proper posting, arc-flast zones, PPE, etc. for any electrical worker to legally' do live work.

I have 2 reservations about this.....

#1- OSHA (last i knew) , did not recongnize 70E. One can assume OSHA training here through the private sector but it is usually something found in the cities at exorbitant rates.

One flyer in my mail asked $650 for a weekend course, and was 4 hrs away. Subseqently the 'little guy' here doesn't receive much safety training because of this.
Nor is anything nearby and/or convieniently had for those well heeled.

#2 After one completes the training live work is expected under what i would consider a grey criterior .
The 'employee'-'employer' card is played against the 'employee' who cannot challenge the job at hand regardless of hazard level .


Given the latter, and this forums insightful knowledge of our electrical system vs. those elsewhere on the planet, i'm fairly convinced that concerns for corporate liabilty are more a motive than personal safety here.


#134849 - 12/06/02 11:28 PM Re: Live-Work?  
old Appy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 118
Auckland, New Zealand
Everything can be isolated, I isolate if im on my own normally, if theres a couple of us then i might chance it.


#134850 - 12/07/02 06:51 AM Re: Live-Work?  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,303
true old Appy...
however there are certain designs that manufacture's could follow to lend to the isolation concept.

one example is the Canadian residential panel's main breaker, the connections to it are isolated from the rest of the panel's innards.

this i view as a relatively economical safety feature.


#134851 - 12/07/02 04:49 PM Re: Live-Work?  
Bjarney  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,527
West-Southern Inner-Northeast ...
Trumpy, I do not disagree that folks often use the "computer" excuse, but it’s a fairly worn-out one. If their friggin' data is so important, where is their eight-hour triple-redundant-everything backup system? In a lot of cases, that makes the self-appointed techno hotshots stutter or quiet down at least for awhile.

You may want to invoke the official boilerplate used succesfully by most utilities: "While we make every reasonable effort to provide electric-service continuity, we are not liable for loss of same."


#134852 - 12/08/02 06:55 PM Re: Live-Work?  
nesparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 642
omaha,ne
Give your customer/boss a choice - shut down the circuit(s) or have them sign a disclaimer.
I use one that says that live work is dangerous and I will not be responsible for any damages caused, any data lost or injuries incurred. Then ask for a copy of thier insurance policy and thier agent's phone number.
It's suprising how fast that a shut down then gets arranged. [Linked Image]


ed

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