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#134843 - 12/04/02 10:52 PM Live-Work?
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
How often are you required to work "Live"?
Where you cannot isolate your power source,
or cannot find the CB, because it is not marked.
How do you do your work, when a circuit is required to be kept on?.
Computers, to a certain extent, have caused this.
Your input please-
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#134844 - 12/05/02 09:03 AM Re: Live-Work?
Texas_Ranger Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2343
Loc: Vienna, Austria
>How do you do your work, when a circuit is required to be kept on?.
As careful as possible! This is one reason why I prefer strip connectors to wirenuts, you cann add or remove wires without completely taking apart the connections!
More or less the only occasion where I work hot is when the lights are on the circuit I'm working on and I don't want to sit in the dark.

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#134845 - 12/05/02 10:39 AM Re: Live-Work?
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
There's not usually much need to work live in the residential systems that form most of my work. Live panel changeovers is an exception, as people around here want to avoid the added cost of a call-out from the PoCo.

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#134846 - 12/05/02 09:50 PM Re: Live-Work?
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
The exception to this rule, for my type of work, would be 3phase work, especially where
there is lots of Earthed metal around.
Just makes the work so much slower and more
sort of "thinking work", your every move counts.
Recently hooked up a building for the local power board, using 50mm2 wires (3Phase), live,took me 3 Hours.
Blew out my companies quote for the job, but,
I'm still here to talk about it.
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#134847 - 12/06/02 09:15 AM Re: Live-Work?
classicsat Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 449
I had to replace a main breaker one (crumbly
old Stab-Lock)

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#134848 - 12/06/02 05:45 PM Re: Live-Work?
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
in the US we have OSHA, and what is refered to as 'sub part S' , we also have NFPA 70E.

sub-part S can be found in OSHA's on line page.

NFPA 70E can be had for about $30 here, it is a concise document , one i wish was at least refered to in my apprenticeship.

In a nutshell, both detail the basics of live work, proper posting, arc-flast zones, PPE, etc. for any electrical worker to legally' do live work.

I have 2 reservations about this.....

#1- OSHA (last i knew) , did not recongnize 70E. One can assume OSHA training here through the private sector but it is usually something found in the cities at exorbitant rates.

One flyer in my mail asked $650 for a weekend course, and was 4 hrs away. Subseqently the 'little guy' here doesn't receive much safety training because of this.
Nor is anything nearby and/or convieniently had for those well heeled.

#2 After one completes the training live work is expected under what i would consider a grey criterior .
The 'employee'-'employer' card is played against the 'employee' who cannot challenge the job at hand regardless of hazard level .


Given the latter, and this forums insightful knowledge of our electrical system vs. those elsewhere on the planet, i'm fairly convinced that concerns for corporate liabilty are more a motive than personal safety here.

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#134849 - 12/06/02 07:28 PM Re: Live-Work?
old Appy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/18/01
Posts: 120
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Everything can be isolated, I isolate if im on my own normally, if theres a couple of us then i might chance it.

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#134850 - 12/07/02 02:51 AM Re: Live-Work?
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
true old Appy...
however there are certain designs that manufacture's could follow to lend to the isolation concept.

one example is the Canadian residential panel's main breaker, the connections to it are isolated from the rest of the panel's innards.

this i view as a relatively economical safety feature.

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#134851 - 12/07/02 12:49 PM Re: Live-Work?
Bjarney Offline
Moderator

Registered: 04/10/02
Posts: 2561
Loc: West-Southern Inner-Northeast ...
Trumpy, I do not disagree that folks often use the "computer" excuse, but it’s a fairly worn-out one. If their friggin' data is so important, where is their eight-hour triple-redundant-everything backup system? In a lot of cases, that makes the self-appointed techno hotshots stutter or quiet down at least for awhile.

You may want to invoke the official boilerplate used succesfully by most utilities: "While we make every reasonable effort to provide electric-service continuity, we are not liable for loss of same."

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#134852 - 12/08/02 02:55 PM Re: Live-Work?
nesparky Offline
Member

Registered: 06/21/01
Posts: 650
Loc: omaha,ne
Give your customer/boss a choice - shut down the circuit(s) or have them sign a disclaimer.
I use one that says that live work is dangerous and I will not be responsible for any damages caused, any data lost or injuries incurred. Then ask for a copy of thier insurance policy and thier agent's phone number.
It's suprising how fast that a shut down then gets arranged.
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