The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Industrail Control Panel bonding per 409.108
by sparkyinak
Yesterday at 06:29 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by aussie240
12/07/16 02:39 AM
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
12/06/16 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 10
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 8
Potseal 6
Who's Online
2 registered (crselectric, mbhydro), 232 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#134826 - 12/01/02 11:16 AM Electrical work done by plumbers
Texas_Ranger Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2343
Loc: Vienna, Austria
What do you guys think about electrical work done by plumbers?
In Austria they usually wire everything they hook up (new boiler,...), and most of the time they botch horribly. For example, a well-known plumbing company installed a completely new central heating system in our appartment. They took the wire from our infrared heater, connected 2 3x1.5 mm2 SVT cables to it using strip connectors, wrapped everything with electrical tape and finally buried the splice in the wall. Then they ran 1 wire to the boiler (nicely stapled to the wall, but stranded isn't listed for fixed wiring) and one to the heater.
There's a plumber I know quite well who spliced the 230/400 panel feeder in his house. He hadn't much conductor left, so everything was under tension. Some time later the splice burnt and he had 230V on the neutral. This went unnoticed as long as the neutral worked. But when the neutral broke, every light-power appliance ran on 400V (light bulbs become really bright then!), and high-power appliances just stopped working.
So what do you think?

Top
Test Equipment:

Large Selection of Test Equipment For Electrical, HVAC, Test & Measurement
Large Selection of Test Equipment For Electrical, HVAC, Test & Measurement

#134827 - 12/01/02 01:57 PM Re: Electrical work done by plumbers
C-H Offline

Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 1508
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
> stranded isn't listed for fixed wiring

Are you sure about this? It sounds very odd.

Top
#134828 - 12/01/02 09:30 PM Re: Electrical work done by plumbers
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Over here in NZ,
Plumbers, are required to sit an exam, called the Tradespersons Wiring Certificate,
it is only available to Craftsman Plumbers, with 2 years Qualifying Experience.
This work, pertains mainly to wiring H/W cylinders, dishwashers, waste disposal units
and water boilers.
This is only where an Electrician has already run the cable and provided the Protection Equipment.
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

Top
#134829 - 12/02/02 12:15 AM Re: Electrical work done by plumbers
Texas_Ranger Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2343
Loc: Vienna, Austria
Flex (SVT cord, according to US terminology) isn't listed for permanent use. Only solid 3x1.5 or bigger may be used for fixed surface mount runs.

Top
#134830 - 12/02/02 04:06 AM Re: Electrical work done by plumbers
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
i must confess more plumbers having intrical knowledge of boiler controls than i, however, thier wiring methods tend to lack finesse...

Top
#134831 - 12/02/02 08:35 AM Re: Electrical work done by plumbers
CTwireman Offline
Member

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 839
Loc: Connecticut, USA
I agree with Sparky, some plumber's work here leaves a lot to be desired, although I'm usually not concerned with the low-voltage work they do.

Even worse than plumbers are HVAC guys who do their own wiring on air conditioners and air handlers they install. I have seen flying Romex with no staples or support for 12 feet, diconnect switches falling off the side of the house, no romex connectors, etc etc.
_________________________
Peter

Top
#134832 - 12/02/02 02:09 PM Re: Electrical work done by plumbers
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
Oh yes.... Some of the wiring done on central heating boilers is very poor.

I've seen NM-type cable run right into the controls, casually draped across hot surfaces, or "choc-block" connectors with a couple of turns of tape equally casually pulled through from the back of the unit.

Top
#134833 - 12/03/02 10:13 PM Re: Electrical work done by plumbers
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
I must admit, guys, I would never like to do the type of work that Plumbers do, especially, as that applies to Sewerage work, Soil pipes, etc.
I once saw a blow-back on a Plumber, working
downstairs in a two-storey house,when someone upstairs flushed the toilet, it was not pretty, thank Christ I'm a Sparkie.

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 12-04-2002).]
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

Top
#134834 - 12/04/02 05:36 AM Re: Electrical work done by plumbers
Texas_Ranger Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2343
Loc: Vienna, Austria
Yeah, I agree that plumber's work can be really awful, but Yet I think if they're not able to do electrical work properly they should stick to their pipes.
I know that they're almost forced to do electrical work when installing boiklers etc, but I think in this case they should be obliged to take some kind of basic electrical training and license.

Top
#134835 - 12/04/02 05:41 AM Re: Electrical work done by plumbers
Texas_Ranger Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2343
Loc: Vienna, Austria
Oh, I forgot: I haven't yet had the pleasure to see wiring done by HVAC guys first hand since air condition is hardly ever used in residential construction here (some hysteric people have window-ac units installed, but they're not appreciated very much (neither the people beacause they just can't stand a nice warm summer nor the window units because they look awful from outside). Plumbers are just far more common here, as hot water central heating has been first choice since the 1930ies or even earlier and probably will remain (along with lots of gas, wood and oil space heaters in old houses).

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals