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#134740 - 11/29/02 09:40 AM Doing wiring in other countries
C-H Offline

Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 1508
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
This topic was sparked by a message in the uk.d-i-y NG.

 Quote:

From: Andrew Gabriel (andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk)
Date: 2002-11-28
Subject: UK wiring in French home

A colleague has just mentioned to me that he rewired a relative's home in France. It was a start from scratch job, as the existing wiring was pre-war. Relative said they wanted it with UK sockets etc, so my colleague wired it with ring circuits, T&E, etc all to UK wiring standards. EDF came to inspect it before connecting up to the supply, and, very much to his surprise, were perfectly
happy with it all being wired to UK standards with UK fittings...


What is your opinion about people doing electrical work in other countries, ignoring the local codes?

(There have been several people in uk.d-i-y who have reported that they have wired houses outside the UK. Few in the NG seem to object, since "UK wiring is superior to that of all other countries".)

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 11-29-2002).]

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#134741 - 11/29/02 12:15 PM Re: Doing wiring in other countries
Texas_Ranger Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2343
Loc: Vienna, Austria
lol! So much about the famous British modesty and understatement!
Seriously, I can understand why people want to have stuff wired like they're used to, but it may be dangerous, as locals who work on the installation in the future may not know about the specialities of this wiring system (especially with the British system incorporating rings and other peculiaritys, e.g. a completely different color coding). This can be very dangerous.

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#134742 - 11/29/02 12:42 PM Re: Doing wiring in other countries
CTwireman Offline
Member

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 839
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Despite many similarities, the U.S and Canada have separate electrical codes which are incompatible in some key areas.

Consequently, someone from the U.S couldn't just go to Canada and wire things the "American way" and vice versa.

Even here in the U.S., there can be big differences from state to state. Chicago's "all conduit" rule and the use of all-in-one service panels in the Western U.S. come to mind.
_________________________
Peter

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#134743 - 11/29/02 03:15 PM Re: Doing wiring in other countries
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
C-H,
You've beaten me to it! I've be meaning to post a thread asking how qualified each of us might feel to carry out work in another country, to that country's accepted standards/practices.

I've heard of many Brits rewiring houses (often in Spain) to British specifications with BS1363 outlets, ring circuits, etc. I know at least one couple who wanted to sell later and a prospective (Spanish) buyer was very interested but would only proceed if they had the receptacles replaced with Spanish types. (I sure hope they didn't just change the sockets and leave them all on a 30A ring.)

 Quote:
Few in the NG seem to object, since "UK wiring is superior to that of all other countries".

You'll find a great many people in the U.K. who subscribe to this belief, both electricians and laymen alike. I can never understand why they're so adamant about it, although in many cases I suspect that they don't really understand how things are done elsewhere.

Sure, British wiring has its good points, but in my opinion our wiring is far from being superior to that of "all other countries." Where else in the world would you find a washing machine, dryer, dishwasher, kettle, microwave oven, and maybe even a 2kW oversink heater all run on the same circuit? Where else will you find three T&E 2.5mm cables to a double receptacle all jammed into a box only 1 inch deep?

And just look at the way NM cable is casually routed into domestic fixture boxes compared to the neat Romex clamps found on American wiring.

Sorry, fellow Brits, but in my not-so-humble opinion some British practices are highly overrated in this country.

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#134744 - 11/30/02 09:59 PM Re: Doing wiring in other countries
SvenNYC Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 1685
Loc: New York City
Well...that kills my somewhat hair-brained idea of putting in German sockets and corresponding wall boxes (kind of a nostalgic reason for doing so) when I did my apartment rewiring.

After a minute of him looking at me weird...the spouse and I both decided to stick with the proper American way of doing things (according to NEC and New York City codes).

I guess the idea of snapping Europlugs on all the ungrounded stuff and Schuko plugs on the grounded devices and/or wrestling with adapters didn't quite appeal to him either!!

And can you imagine the looks of puzzlement on someone who eventually wants to buy this place? Hehehehehe...

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#134745 - 12/01/02 03:03 AM Re: Doing wiring in other countries
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
Oh yeah.....

"Who put all these dern funny-looking foreign receptacles in my apartment???!!!"

Maybe you should come to England. You could install any type of outlets you want and nobody can stop you.


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 12-01-2002).]

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#134746 - 12/01/02 03:42 AM Re: Doing wiring in other countries
Texas_Ranger Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2343
Loc: Vienna, Austria
Hmmm...
especially if you manage to get 230V single ph out of them...
yet even more surprise if somebody plugged in a german device and got 120V only!
Honestly, I guess I'd have done it. I once thought of wiring my new room 120V with NEMA sockets and toggle switches. However, the resulting problems were decouraging. Main reason was that it turned out to be impossible to get all the stuff from the US for a decnt price (including 14/2 and 14/3 ROMEX, masonry boxes (worst thing, wouldn't even get them at home depot if I told my relatives in MD to get the stuff for me), switches, receptacles, wirenuts, a small 1 or 2 space breaker enclosure (for transformer protection), enough NEMA plugs for all my stuff, and even wors 120V light bulbs), second problem was that I realized that I din't have even nearly enough 120V appliances to be able to do that (not too nice to run an extension cord to the next room whenever you want to use a vacuum cleaner, your stereo, your computer monitor, your laser printer,...).
What do you think about using Standard NEMA devices @230V? (Mostly receptacles, could use 277V switches). I know that some countries officially do so. (for example I have a Sony compact stereo from Thailand which operates on 220V only but has 18 AWG zip cord and a NEMA 1-15 plug labelled 6A 125V)

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#134747 - 12/01/02 11:30 AM Re: Doing wiring in other countries
C-H Offline

Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 1508
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
I had another look to see where the aforementioned thread had gone by now...

 Quote:

As far as I know, the UK electrical regulations are second to none.
Certainly superior to the French.
-----
You can replace UK sockets with any local type using UK twin and earth cable. That should not be a problem at all. As the UK regs are higher than French that is not a problem.


Luckily, someone put him straight on that last part...

"We know our way is superior", is a phrase used by every country in Europe. I jump up and down in my chair when I see Swedish officials expressing this view in the media... There isn't a single country in the world that doesn't claim to have invented grounding. I wouldn't care if it wasn't for the fact that this attitude lowers the real safety.

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 12-01-2002).]

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#134748 - 12/01/02 11:47 AM Re: Doing wiring in other countries
CTwireman Offline
Member

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 839
Loc: Connecticut, USA
 Quote:
Where else in the world would you find a washing machine, dryer, dishwasher, kettle, microwave oven, and maybe even a 2kW oversink heater all run on the same circuit?


Cetainly not in the US! Even with a ring circuit, I consider this arrangement to be unacceptable.

Paul, I know you advocate doing away with the ring and having appliances on dedicated circuits NEC-style.

So, would it be against your regs to ignore convention and actually wire a kitchen as you wish, that is, with dedicated cicuits for large appliances and small appliance circuits?
_________________________
Peter

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#134749 - 12/02/02 02:22 PM Re: Doing wiring in other countries
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
Peter,
No, there's nothing against wiring a dedicated circuit for each major appliance and I do this on a regular basis with new or major remodel work. I always try to install a dedicated branch for a dryer, seeing as that constitutes a 3kW load which can be running continuously for 2 hrs. or more.

The ring is the most widely used circuit arrangement in domestic work, but radial circuits are also permitted by the Regs., subject to limitations on the floor area served by each branch.



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 12-02-2002).]

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