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#134204 - 10/27/02 05:04 PM Discussion of Legrand Wiring Diagrams  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Thread for discussion of the Legrand International Wiring Diagrams posted here.



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 10-27-2002).]


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#134205 - 10/27/02 05:09 PM Re: Discussion of Legrand Wiring Diagrams  
C-H  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,497
Stockholm, Sweden
Wow, now my head is spinning... I fail to see any major differences between the German and French wiring. Something wrong with me?

(Moderator: Thanks! But now you have to update the link above... Perhaps you should lock the other thread?)

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 10-27-2002).]


#134206 - 10/27/02 05:29 PM Re: Discussion of Legrand Wiring Diagrams  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,303
wha??

something else of 'international' status besides the NEC????
[Linked Image]


#134207 - 10/27/02 05:31 PM Re: Discussion of Legrand Wiring Diagrams  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
A few observations of my own:

AMERICAN SYSTEM
The first thing that struck me is all those EGCs drawn in green/yellow. OK, so an EGC is allowed under the NEC to have a yellow stripe now, but don't you normally reserve those for isolated grounds? The notes elsewhere do state "green or bare" which is fair comment, but I think the colors on the drawing are a little misleading for a "typical" installation.

While on the colors, look at the second small appliance branch. Again, we know that red could be used as hot, but is this typical? (Certainly not if Romex is used.) Anyone in the States feel that if they wanted to show some alternate use in a typical home it would have been better to add a multiwire circuit?

Next, look at the listed cable sizes below the drawing:- #14 for a 20A small appliance cct???

Take a look at the diagrams in the notes for NEMA 10-30 and 10-50 receptacles too. They've got them the wrong way round! (Correct on the main drawing though.)

Seems I'd be nit-picking if I added that it isn't really a 2-phase service sd they state, but technically only single-phase.

FRENCH SYSTEM
They say "usually single-phase." That certainly doesn't agree with my findings. I'd say that most homes in France have a 3-phase service and 1-ph is the exception. I've seen mostly older places rather than new, so does anyone know if higher rated
single-phase services are becoming more common nowadays for new homes?

I can't figure out the part about having to break both phase and neutral simultaneously, then stating that rewireable fuses are no longer allowed but HRC fuses can be used. How can an HRC satisfy the "both poles" requirement? [Linked Image]

BRITISH SYSTEM
One bit that looks a little suspect here is the lampholder shown wired directly into the ceiling pull-switch. They've shown it with brown/blue (i.e. flexible cord) colors, which suggests that the lamp pendant is connected directly into the switch. Is this supposed to be a combined pendant and
pull switch?




[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 10-27-2002).]


#134208 - 10/27/02 05:38 PM Re: Discussion of Legrand Wiring Diagrams  
C-H  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,497
Stockholm, Sweden
Quote

FRENCH SYSTEM

I can't figure out the part about having to break both phase and neutral simultaneously, then stating that rewireable fuses are no longer allowed but HRC fuses can be used. How can an HRC satisfy the "both poles" requirement?


May I hazard a guess? Same way as the requirement for simultaneous break of all three phase conductors in Sweden: Three individual fuses side by side are considered one fuse "group" and numbered as one single fuse. (In fact, group ("grupp" in Swedish) is the word used when marking cables, sockets etc.)


#134209 - 10/27/02 05:42 PM Re: Discussion of Legrand Wiring Diagrams  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
C-H,
I was locking the first thread as you put in your message and the only way out was to delete the whole thread and repost it.

I assume you can see all the diagrams? Can't seem to get them all back to my system at the moment, but I've double checked all the links.


#134210 - 10/27/02 05:47 PM Re: Discussion of Legrand Wiring Diagrams  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Sparky,
International as in examining various national systems, not international as in one system for all places.

C-H,
I think I see what you mean about a block, or group, of fuses. They would certainly break all poles simultaneously when pulled out by hand, but I was thinking along the lines of all poles having to open simultaneously in the event of a fault. I can't see how that can be achieved except with a circuit breaker.

As for the differences between the French and German systems, I don't think there are that many. France seems to prefer keeping lights on separate circuits to receptacles instead of mixing them together, and the notes specify that they also limit the number of outlets to eight on each circuit.


#134211 - 10/27/02 05:53 PM Re: Discussion of Legrand Wiring Diagrams  
Belgian  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 177
antwerp
>FRENCH SYSTEM
They say "usually single-phase." That certainly doesn't agree with my findings.
I'd say that most homes in France have a 3-phase service and 1-ph is the exception.
I've seen mostly older places rather than new, so does anyone know if higher rated
single-phase services are becoming more common nowadays for new homes?

I can try and answer for the French, since our system is nearly a copy of the French. When they say usually single phase, they're refering to new installations. Since the highest rate main Breakers is 63A, if you would need more , then you would have to make a demand for a 3 phase system.

>I can't figure out the part about having to break both phase and neutral simultaneously.

Read my reply in the thread plans, schemas...

>then stating that rewireable fuses are no longer allowed but HRC fuses can be used. How can an HRC satisfy the "both poles" requirement?

Why can't HRC satisfy the both pole requirement?


#134212 - 10/27/02 05:57 PM Re: Discussion of Legrand Wiring Diagrams  
C-H  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,497
Stockholm, Sweden
Yes, I can see all thee diagrams. No problems. Sorry for the inconvenience!

I think Sparky was joking about the NEC:s attempt to become THE international code. (They have made attempts to show that the NEC is superior to that of the International Electrical Commission. Now they apparently print International Electrical Code on the NEC cover...)

It can't be very hard writing a common European code, can it? I'm serious!

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 10-27-2002).]


#134213 - 10/27/02 05:59 PM Re: Discussion of Legrand Wiring Diagrams  
Belgian  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 177
antwerp
Another difference is to do with the way they calculate the cable width to be used with each circuit.
Another difference between German and French are the plugs that are used. The reason that we adopted the French plugs instead of German is because the earth makes a contact before all other poles since it's pin is longer, whereas it's not the case with German plugs.

[This message has been edited by Belgian (edited 10-27-2002).]


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