The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
Today at 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
Yesterday at 09:59 AM
Wow, that was close!
by jraef
11/28/16 07:06 PM
Earthquake in New Zeeland
by RODALCO
11/27/16 11:25 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by Tjia1981
11/27/16 06:33 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 15
HotLine1 10
Texas_Ranger 8
Trumpy 8
sparkyinak 7
Who's Online
0 registered (), 218 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#134204 - 10/27/02 01:04 PM Discussion of Legrand Wiring Diagrams
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
Thread for discussion of the Legrand International Wiring Diagrams posted here.



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 10-27-2002).]

Top
Test Equipment:

Large Selection of Test Equipment For Electrical, HVAC, Test & Measurement
Large Selection of Test Equipment For Electrical, HVAC, Test & Measurement

#134205 - 10/27/02 01:09 PM Re: Discussion of Legrand Wiring Diagrams
C-H Offline

Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 1508
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Wow, now my head is spinning... I fail to see any major differences between the German and French wiring. Something wrong with me?

(Moderator: Thanks! But now you have to update the link above... Perhaps you should lock the other thread?)

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 10-27-2002).]

Top
#134206 - 10/27/02 01:29 PM Re: Discussion of Legrand Wiring Diagrams
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
wha??

something else of 'international' status besides the NEC????

Top
#134207 - 10/27/02 01:31 PM Re: Discussion of Legrand Wiring Diagrams
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
A few observations of my own:

AMERICAN SYSTEM
The first thing that struck me is all those EGCs drawn in green/yellow. OK, so an EGC is allowed under the NEC to have a yellow stripe now, but don't you normally reserve those for isolated grounds? The notes elsewhere do state "green or bare" which is fair comment, but I think the colors on the drawing are a little misleading for a "typical" installation.

While on the colors, look at the second small appliance branch. Again, we know that red could be used as hot, but is this typical? (Certainly not if Romex is used.) Anyone in the States feel that if they wanted to show some alternate use in a typical home it would have been better to add a multiwire circuit?

Next, look at the listed cable sizes below the drawing:- #14 for a 20A small appliance cct???

Take a look at the diagrams in the notes for NEMA 10-30 and 10-50 receptacles too. They've got them the wrong way round! (Correct on the main drawing though.)

Seems I'd be nit-picking if I added that it isn't really a 2-phase service sd they state, but technically only single-phase.

FRENCH SYSTEM
They say "usually single-phase." That certainly doesn't agree with my findings. I'd say that most homes in France have a 3-phase service and 1-ph is the exception. I've seen mostly older places rather than new, so does anyone know if higher rated
single-phase services are becoming more common nowadays for new homes?

I can't figure out the part about having to break both phase and neutral simultaneously, then stating that rewireable fuses are no longer allowed but HRC fuses can be used. How can an HRC satisfy the "both poles" requirement?

BRITISH SYSTEM
One bit that looks a little suspect here is the lampholder shown wired directly into the ceiling pull-switch. They've shown it with brown/blue (i.e. flexible cord) colors, which suggests that the lamp pendant is connected directly into the switch. Is this supposed to be a combined pendant and
pull switch?




[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 10-27-2002).]

Top
#134208 - 10/27/02 01:38 PM Re: Discussion of Legrand Wiring Diagrams
C-H Offline

Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 1508
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
 Quote:

FRENCH SYSTEM

I can't figure out the part about having to break both phase and neutral simultaneously, then stating that rewireable fuses are no longer allowed but HRC fuses can be used. How can an HRC satisfy the "both poles" requirement?


May I hazard a guess? Same way as the requirement for simultaneous break of all three phase conductors in Sweden: Three individual fuses side by side are considered one fuse "group" and numbered as one single fuse. (In fact, group ("grupp" in Swedish) is the word used when marking cables, sockets etc.)

Top
#134209 - 10/27/02 01:42 PM Re: Discussion of Legrand Wiring Diagrams
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
C-H,
I was locking the first thread as you put in your message and the only way out was to delete the whole thread and repost it.

I assume you can see all the diagrams? Can't seem to get them all back to my system at the moment, but I've double checked all the links.

Top
#134210 - 10/27/02 01:47 PM Re: Discussion of Legrand Wiring Diagrams
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
Sparky,
International as in examining various national systems, not international as in one system for all places.

C-H,
I think I see what you mean about a block, or group, of fuses. They would certainly break all poles simultaneously when pulled out by hand, but I was thinking along the lines of all poles having to open simultaneously in the event of a fault. I can't see how that can be achieved except with a circuit breaker.

As for the differences between the French and German systems, I don't think there are that many. France seems to prefer keeping lights on separate circuits to receptacles instead of mixing them together, and the notes specify that they also limit the number of outlets to eight on each circuit.

Top
#134211 - 10/27/02 01:53 PM Re: Discussion of Legrand Wiring Diagrams
Belgian Offline
Member

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 177
Loc: antwerp
>FRENCH SYSTEM
They say "usually single-phase." That certainly doesn't agree with my findings.
I'd say that most homes in France have a 3-phase service and 1-ph is the exception.
I've seen mostly older places rather than new, so does anyone know if higher rated
single-phase services are becoming more common nowadays for new homes?

I can try and answer for the French, since our system is nearly a copy of the French. When they say usually single phase, they're refering to new installations. Since the highest rate main Breakers is 63A, if you would need more , then you would have to make a demand for a 3 phase system.

>I can't figure out the part about having to break both phase and neutral simultaneously.

Read my reply in the thread plans, schemas...

>then stating that rewireable fuses are no longer allowed but HRC fuses can be used. How can an HRC satisfy the "both poles" requirement?

Why can't HRC satisfy the both pole requirement?

Top
#134212 - 10/27/02 01:57 PM Re: Discussion of Legrand Wiring Diagrams
C-H Offline

Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 1508
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Yes, I can see all thee diagrams. No problems. Sorry for the inconvenience!

I think Sparky was joking about the NEC:s attempt to become THE international code. (They have made attempts to show that the NEC is superior to that of the International Electrical Commission. Now they apparently print International Electrical Code on the NEC cover...)

It can't be very hard writing a common European code, can it? I'm serious!

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 10-27-2002).]

Top
#134213 - 10/27/02 01:59 PM Re: Discussion of Legrand Wiring Diagrams
Belgian Offline
Member

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 177
Loc: antwerp
Another difference is to do with the way they calculate the cable width to be used with each circuit.
Another difference between German and French are the plugs that are used. The reason that we adopted the French plugs instead of German is because the earth makes a contact before all other poles since it's pin is longer, whereas it's not the case with German plugs.

[This message has been edited by Belgian (edited 10-27-2002).]

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals