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#12770 - 08/15/02 06:31 PM Recessed Can Over Tub
arseegee Offline
Member
Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 324
Loc: Statesboro, GA USA
I am in a "debate" with a with an inspector about a can light over a tub. I consider that to be a damp location rather than a wet location as pertains to 410.4 (a)(d). Maybe I'm missing something, is there a code requirement on a sealed vs. open trim?

[This message has been edited by arseegee (edited 08-15-2002).]
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#12771 - 08/15/02 06:34 PM Re: Recessed Can Over Tub
Steve Miller Offline
Member
Registered: 08/30/01
Posts: 325
Loc: Loudoun Cty, VA
Wet location...sealed lens
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#12772 - 08/15/02 06:35 PM Re: Recessed Can Over Tub
Happi_Man Offline
Member
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 206
Loc: Columbus, Ohio - USA
I'm not an expert and I don't even know what part of the code to refer to but I thought it had to be a sealed (shower) trim...
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#12773 - 08/15/02 06:37 PM Re: Recessed Can Over Tub
arseegee Offline
Member
Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 324
Loc: Statesboro, GA USA
Code reference?
Thanks
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#12774 - 08/15/02 06:47 PM Re: Recessed Can Over Tub
Steve Miller Offline
Member
Registered: 08/30/01
Posts: 325
Loc: Loudoun Cty, VA
An open trim can get water splashed in. Here's the section that comes to mind immediately (99 code). Wet/damp won't matter here. Needs sealed lens either way.

410-4. Fixtures in Specific Locations
(a) Wet and Damp Locations. Fixtures installed in wet or damp locations shall be installed so that water cannot enter or accumulate in wiring compartments, lampholders, or other electrical parts. All fixtures installed in wet locations shall be marked, “Suitable for Wet Locations.” All fixtures installed in damp locations shall be marked, “Suitable for Wet Locations” or “Suitable for Damp Locations.”
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#12775 - 08/15/02 06:55 PM Re: Recessed Can Over Tub
arseegee Offline
Member
Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 324
Loc: Statesboro, GA USA
Thanks Steve, to play devils advocate:
The fixture is listed for damp. Same as used in an open air porch or soffit(aka damp location).
Water splashed from a bathroom sink could enter a vanity light. Is that a wet location?
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#12776 - 08/16/02 05:59 AM Re: Recessed Can Over Tub
Electric Eagle Offline
Member
Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 914
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
We've always used a sealed lens in a shower or over tub. I can see if this is a tub, not a shower that a regular can might be acceptable. As long as it's not life threatening, I say put in the trim the inspector wants to see, wait 'til he's been gone 5 minutes and put in the one the customer wants. I personally would only use a par bulb to reduce the risk of a bulb shattering from a drop of water.
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#12777 - 08/16/02 07:09 AM Re: Recessed Can Over Tub
mamills Offline
Member
Registered: 11/30/01
Posts: 745
Loc: Wharton, Texas, USA
I'm curious to know if height of the fixture from the bottom of the tub plays any part here (didn't see anything about this in the NEC). I could imagine someone standing in a damp tub and reaching up to change a burned out lamp. Eagle's point is well taken about using a PAR lamp.

Mike (mamills)
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#12778 - 08/16/02 04:33 PM Re: Recessed Can Over Tub
sparky Offline
Member
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5303
a worthy Q mike...
410.4(A) "wet & damp locations" is not, in 410.4(D), specified as to either/or.

The 'zone' in (D) ...

Quote:
a zone measured 900 mm (3 ft) horizontally and 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower stall threshold. This zone is all encompassing and includes the zone directly over the tub or shower stall.


interesting in that a 'damp' location is mentioned for hot tubs in 680.43, allbeit GFI protection is prerequisite.....

Quote:
(1) Recessed luminaires (fixtures) with a glass or plastic lens, nonmetallic or electrically isolated metal trim, and suitable for use in damp locations
(2) Surface-mounted luminaires (fixtures) with a glass or plastic globe, a nonmetallic body, or a metallic body isolated from contact, and suitable for use in damp locations


so it's damp over a hot tub & wet in a shower?

well in a mobile home it is..(550.14 (D))
Quote:

(D)
Bathtub and Shower Luminaires (Fixtures). Where a luminaire (lighting fixture) is installed over a bathtub or in a shower stall, it shall be of the enclosed and gasketed type listed for wet locations.


so why is this any different than a dwelling?


[This message has been edited because sparky's all wet (edited 08-16-2002).]

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 08-16-2002).]
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#12779 - 08/16/02 05:21 PM Re: Recessed Can Over Tub
arseegee Offline
Member
Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 324
Loc: Statesboro, GA USA
Couldn't get in touch w/inspector this morning to continue our "discussion". Went to job and home owner was not happy about the sealed trims. He got his certificate of occupancy but wants the open trims over the tub. I'll turn my head the other way I guess and let him change them to what he wants. Does this code article seem to have some grey area or what? When I get to my inspector (who has called me before to help him on the code) I'm gonna ask the specific definition of what is a wet, dry and damp location in a bathroom.
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