ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 17
Recent Posts
Anyone hiring inspectors?
by sparky66wv. 03/26/17 12:22 PM
Old decora style outlets
by Admin. 03/25/17 11:40 AM
ESA Arc flash course
by TheShockDoctors. 03/24/17 10:15 AM
fuse rejectors
by HotLine1. 03/24/17 07:53 AM
Another Forum Update
by Admin. 03/22/17 03:04 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
231,509 Are you busy
166,213 Re: Forum
160,660 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (sparky66wv), 62 guests, and 12 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#127415 - 06/23/01 08:58 PM GFCI & refrigerators  
Tom  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Shinnston, WV USA
Since the thread was closed on the other forum, I'd like to post the following observations.

Don't confuse empirical data with anecdotal data. Unless you're taking measurements in a recognized scientific manner, any observations in the field about GFI's & refridgerators is strictlyt anecdotal.

GFI receptacles amaze me to no end. I'm currently on a job that is served by one GFI receptacle (it actually works & has been tested). On most days, there is approximately 1500 to 2000 feet of cord plugged into it with no trouble. I don't have enough fingers & toes to count the 3 way splitters.

However, if there is the least little bit of fog in the morning,out comes the WD-40, becuse the GFI keeps tripping.

Tom


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.

Tools for Electricians:

#127416 - 06/24/01 07:37 AM Re: GFCI & refrigerators  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,303
Tom;
worksites always amaze me also, as they operate many times in direct confliction to any electrical math i may do.

onto GFI's,
To me, the optimum method in wiring a new kitchen is to utilize 210-52(b)(1) EX 2. I do this to free up the small app circuit.

As this is now dedicated, there is no indication other than the fridge itself as to nusiance tripping, were it to be served via GFI.

I do not advocate a GFI in this scenario, however, as a general observation, the requirements of the NEC to GFI or not to GFI makes little sense at least to me

I have seen hardwired pools , 480V 100A submersibles with divers in close proximity ,40A and up welder circuits in the rain, as well as a variety of other unmentionable circumstances that the NEC would preclude GFI's, yet we are to argue a Fridge's applicability here???


#127417 - 06/24/01 11:08 AM Re: GFCI & refrigerators  
electure  Offline


Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,259
Fullerton, CA USA
I humbly suggest that anybody wanting to argue a subject go to www.mindspring.com/~mfpatton/sclinic.htm
We're here to help each other, and although we may disagree at times, discussions needn't dip to the level of arguments. It's beneath our combined dignity.
(stated by a guy with no dignity at all)


#127418 - 06/24/01 01:14 PM Re: GFCI & refrigerators  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,303
Q: WHAT DO YOU WANT?
M: Well, I was told outside that...
Q: Don't give me that, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings!
M: What?
Q: Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, maloderous, pervert!!!
M: Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I'm not going to just stand...!!
Q: OH, oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse.
M: Oh, I see, well, that explains it.
Q: Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor.
M: Oh, Thank you very much. Sorry.
Q: Not at all.
M: Thank You.
(Under his breath) Stupid git!!

(Walk down the corridor)
M: (Knock)
A: Come in.
M: Ah, Is this the right room for an argument?
A: I told you once.
M: No you haven't.
A: Yes I have.
M: When?
A: Just now.
M: No you didn't.
A: Yes I did.
M: You didn't
A: I did!
M: You didn't!
A: I'm telling you I did!
M: You did not!!
A: Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?
M: Oh, just the five minutes.
A: Ah, thank you. Anyway, I did.
M: You most certainly did not.
A: Look, let's get this thing clear; I quite definitely told you.
M: No you did not.
A: Yes I did.
M: No you didn't.
A: Yes I did.
M: No you didn't.
A: Yes I did.
M: No you didn't.
A: Yes I did.
M: You didn't.
A: Did.
M: Oh look, this isn't an argument.
A: Yes it is.
M: No it isn't. It's just contradiction.
A: No it isn't.
M: It is!
A: It is not.
M: Look, you just contradicted me.
A: I did not.
M: Oh you did!!
A: No, no, no.
M: You did just then.
A: Nonsense!
M: Oh, this is futile!
A: No it isn't.
M: I came here for a good argument.
A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
A: It can be.
M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
A: No it isn't.
M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
A: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!

A: Yes it is!
M: Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
(short pause)
A: No it isn't.
M: It is.
A: Not at all.
M: Now look.
A: (Rings bell) Good Morning.
M: What?
A: That's it. Good morning.
M: I was just getting interested.
A: Sorry, the five minutes is up.
M: That was never five minutes!
A: I'm afraid it was.
M: It wasn't.
Pause
A: I'm sorry, but I'm not allowed to argue anymore.
M: What?!
A: If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.
M: Yes, but that was never five minutes, just now. Oh come on!
A: (Hums)
M: Look, this is ridiculous.
A: I'm sorry, but I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid!
M: Oh, all right.
(pays money)
A: Thank you.
short pause
M: Well?
A: Well what?
M: That wasn't really five minutes, just now.
A: I told you, I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid.
M: I just paid!
A: No you didn't.
M: I DID!
A: No you didn't.
M: Look, I don't want to argue about that.
A: Well, you didn't pay.
M: Aha. If I didn't pay, why are you arguing? I Got you!
A: No you haven't.
M: Yes I have. If you're arguing, I must have paid.
A: Not necessarily. I could be arguing in my spare time.
M: Oh I've had enough of this.
A: No you haven't.
M: Oh Shut up.
[Linked Image]


#127419 - 06/24/01 01:52 PM Re: GFCI & refrigerators  
sparky66wv  Online Content
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,233
West Virginia
Monte Python... I love it!


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

#127420 - 06/24/01 06:13 PM Re: GFCI & refrigerators  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,303
Apparently proposal 2-32 in the ROP's has generated much response in the ROC's.

the jist being that many GFI's are dysfunctional

false safety is worse in my opinion.



Member Spotlight
HappyElectrician
HappyElectrician
Penn USA
Posts: 31
Joined: December 2011
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.012s Queries: 14 (0.002s) Memory: 0.7783 MB (Peak: 0.9217 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-03-26 17:06:48 UTC