The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by aussie240
Yesterday at 02:39 AM
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
12/06/16 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
Wow, that was close!
by jraef
11/28/16 07:06 PM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 9
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 7
Trumpy 6
Who's Online
1 registered (HotLine1), 214 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#127123 - 05/02/01 08:00 PM Fast Meter
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
Assuming a properly calibrated and functioning meter, can anything make it run faster? or slower?

I'm wondering about 'stray' neutral current because of a bad utility neutral somewhere.


Bill

Top
#127124 - 05/03/01 03:59 AM Re: Fast Meter
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
Hmmmm;

if i put an electromagnet around it, sized just to the meter glass?????


but seriously;
i had the impression, by Scott's posts that the metering coils were only around the hots...???

Top
#127125 - 05/03/01 02:24 PM Re: Fast Meter
Anonymous
Unregistered


 Quote:
i had the impression, by Scott's posts that the metering coils were only around the hots...???


That's a fact. Around here our residential meters have just four prongs, two for each hot to pass through.

Top
#127126 - 05/03/01 07:30 PM Re: Fast Meter
sparky66wv Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2339
Loc: West Virginia
I'm more interested in what would make one run slower!
_________________________
-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

Top
#127127 - 05/03/01 07:35 PM Re: Fast Meter
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
66'
so are all my customers!

Top
#127128 - 05/03/01 08:28 PM Re: Fast Meter
Scott35 Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 2724
Loc: Anaheim, CA. USA
Ya, the current coils in each stator are connected to Line [Typically the Ungrounded Conductor].
On a corner grounded delta, there's a 1 in 2 chance of the grounded leg to be run through the meter. That would probably be a code compliance issue - breaking the grounded conductor [if the meter was disconnected]. That's just an ass-umption by me.

On Wye connected systems/meters, the stator coils will also be connected in a Wye fashion, so for the 4 wire ones, this "common" connection between the stators would also [maybe??] be connected to the grounded conductor. A 3 wire Wye would have the common, but since there is no conductor between the transformers and the service, there's nothing to connect that common to at the meter.

I'll draw up some schematics for meters and post them here soon. I'm going away for the weekend [hu-ray!!!]. Got almost all the transformer schematics drawn and converted from .DWG [vector format], to .GIF [Raster format]. When done, I'll make a few new threads in this discussion area [theory].

As to making the meter run faster or slower, have heard many times about meters running fast. Each of them turned out to be normal connected loads, which were drawing power.

Things like electric ranges were in self cleaning modes, or had some type of intermittant and non-intentional control system problem, which resulted in the elements being energized at full [high] level for brief amounts of time, over and over - which ultimatly resulted in excessive KWH consumption.

A few others were pump motors just recirculating a lot of water, stuff like that.

Have not found any external abnormalty causing the increase - has so far been a situation where the client just either did not know of some malfunctioning equipment, or forgot that the 25 KW electric water heater plus the pump for the new Jacuzzi spa just might draw a little bit of power

This does not by anyway mean that it's not possible - just in my case I haven't found other than explained. If others have, please elaborate as I am interested!!

Now for slowing the Rotating Register down, seems like two ways to go:

1: the legal way [less consumption],

2: the Illegal way [fooling the meter].

I suggest only method #1!!!!

***Cool Trivia***
I had heard one person mention that they drilled a very small hole though the glass, in an unnoticable spot [where the meter reader wouldn't see it], in which a toothpick or something similar was pushed through it and against the Rotating Register.
That would slow it down, or make it stop competely.

This is only trivia - DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!!!!!! [cops, jail, fine, more jail, lawyers, judges, problems, etc. will be the result!!!].

Scott SET
_________________________
Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

Top
#127129 - 05/03/01 09:55 PM Re: Fast Meter
sparky66wv Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2339
Loc: West Virginia
Would it be illegal to slow the meter down using an unintrusive and external method? (i.e. coils, magnets, etc.)

Just how are the laws written? If it's property laws, then as long as we don't touch 'em, can we do what we want?!?!

Just curious...

I've heard stories of various things...
Drilling the rivet on the hasp for the lock/seal, open the meterbase, gingerly open the brass seal in back, open the meter, back out the F-S screw, or put super-glue in the bearings, or create drag with a nail, etc.
Re-rivet the hasp and paint grey.

Something about necessity being the mother of invention?

Rates in WV are very good... about 7.8 cents per KWh. My bill is about $45 per month, so I have no complaints. Still, it's amazing what people will do to save a few bucks!


[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 05-04-2001).]
_________________________
-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

Top
#127130 - 05/04/01 03:56 PM Re: Fast Meter
Tom Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 1069
Loc: Shinnston, WV USA
Well, there are several ways to slow down a meter without breaking the seal, etc. One of the easiest appears to be by injecting a strong DC signal on the line which will saturate the coils in the meter. I can't remember the other ways. I read about this at least 20 years ago.

Heard a rumor that you could stop a gas meter by turning it upside down. Of course, it has to be plumbed correctly to allot this to happen & you sure don't want to have it this way when the meter reader comes by..

Disclaimer? Anyone who tries anything that I posted here does so at his/her own risk. Beating the Power company out of their $$$ is usually a felony.

Tom
_________________________
Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.

Top
#127131 - 05/04/01 07:20 PM Re: Fast Meter
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
Tom;
so true, i've seen underground taps discovered before the meter on laterals, the utilities go right for the throat.
Like Virgil said, it's amazing what people will do, if rates go up as insinuated i'd wager seeing more shenanigans

Top
#127132 - 05/04/01 07:54 PM Re: Fast Meter
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
I had one Customer that bought a house from a Utility Emoloyee. The Se cable went through a soffit on the way down to the meter. Upon looking in the Attic I saw that He had Tapped into the SE and soldered to Fuses (picture in Mid-air in Attic) and was feeding his Electric Stove. It was not hooked up at this point, but I always thought it was a little strange that He did not take it out when He put the House up for Sale. Definately a good Photo-op I may just go there this Summer just to snap a few pics.

I'm gettin into this too much aren't I?


Bill

Top



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals