ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 16
Recent Posts
fuse rejectors
by gfretwell. 03/23/17 01:12 PM
Another Forum Update
by Admin. 03/22/17 03:04 PM
Dining room plugs
by watersparkfalls. 03/21/17 10:31 PM
TRUE POWER
by jraef. 03/21/17 09:13 PM
WEG CFW-11 Frequency Inverter
by jraef. 03/21/17 08:50 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
231,243 Are you busy
165,954 Re: Forum
160,481 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (gfretwell), 67 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#126935 - 03/12/01 07:47 PM Power correction Caps  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,303
A few years back, i surfed up a link, which has since dissapeared entitled " What the power company does not want you to see"

After a page or so about commie plots, it then presented this slices , dices & makes julian fries miracle device.

In small print it eluded to installation by an electrician..... so i inquired.... [Linked Image]

It seems all the gizmo really came down to was a residential version of an industrial power correction capacitor placed across the two incomming phases.

curiously, they are no longer around [Linked Image]

anyone heard of this sort of gizmo out there???

would it work in theory??

[Linked Image]


[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 03-12-2001).]


Tools for Electricians:

#126936 - 04/27/01 11:15 PM Re: Power correction Caps  
golf junkie  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 507
York, NE
Sparky,
And what would the advantage of a PFC capacitor be on the typical residence??

Unless the load is highly inductive, (motors & transformers), there is no gain.

Or is that wrong????


#126937 - 04/28/01 09:19 PM Re: Power correction Caps  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,303
Gj;
supposively it smooths out the spikes, fridge, furnace, washer, water pump. I could be wrong, but i would imagine that would not amount to much of a savings.

i'm still on the fence though, was the product a flop, and they folded?, or was it too good to be true and vinnie the bone crusher from the power company came to visit?

[Linked Image]


#126938 - 04/29/01 12:01 AM Re: Power correction Caps  
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,707
Anaheim, CA. USA
Steve,

I would imagine that the person was under some impression that the normal Residential customer pays the power company for KVA, rather than for KW - hence the installation of Power Factor Correction.

Have heard many persons brag about this before, stating that they are "Cheating" the power company. When I ask how, they go into a discussion about a subject that, as they say "I [I being me] have no idea about this term called Reactive Power", so they explain the whole thing [quite poorly, might I add [Linked Image]].

If the person is really arrogant, I'll let them dig a huge hole, then I'll quickly bury them with non-arguable facts!
If the person is just mistaken, mis-led, or nice, I'll keep them from digging the hole.

Seems that the good 'ol "It cost a Nickel each time you flick that light switch on and off" falls in the same groove as this one.
I'll bait someone into that Nickel one, then explain how many times the Rotating Register would have to spin in order to equal a Nickel's worth of Wattage.
At home, I'll put the person right in front of the KWH meter, then flick on and off a Decora 1 pole switch that's close enough to the meter/main. That one gets very fast results!!
P.S. the Decora Rocker switch makes it easy to rapidly flick the switch on and off.

The wager is: I'll give you $5.00 if the first dial moves a complete number after I have repeatedly turned on/off that same switch over a period of 1 minute.
[I do make sure that the Electric Stove and / or Oven isn't on also..].

In maybe 10 years of playing that one out, I have yet to pay off!! It's never moved that much, even with a high load going!

Anyhow, if you have the chance to find a KWH meter with a Rr of 1, run 200 watts worth of Incandescent lighting through it, and note the speed.
Next, run 200 VA worth of Fluorescent lighting through it, and note the speed.
Lastly, run a motor with a load equal to 200 Watts [0.268 horsepower], note the speed of the meter and the current flowing into the load. the motor will have maybe 3 or more amps at 120 VAC flowing, while producing the 0.268 HP, so here will demonstrate the PF involved.

They will all spin the Meter the same speed!

If a KWH meter with a Rr of 1 is not available, make due with whatever possible.
My KWH meter has a Rr of 13 7/9, and it's kind of hard to use it for direct tests!!

Scott SET

[This message has been edited by Scott35 (edited 07-04-2004).]


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

#126939 - 04/29/01 08:04 PM Re: Power correction Caps  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,303
so Scott,
is it the manner of metering that is the key issue here?
[Linked Image]


#126940 - 04/30/01 01:17 AM Re: Power correction Caps  
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,707
Anaheim, CA. USA
Steve,

Sorry to run around the KWH meter area so much!!

The meter used for nearly all customers [Residential, Commercial and Industrial] will measure only the amount of True Power used over time.
This is Kilo Watt Hours.
Doesn't matter if you have the worst Power Factor in the world!! it only measures the consumption of True Power [Wattage].

So if you had a motor that drew 30,000 Volt-Amps from the line, while it was developing one horsepower on the shaft, you will only be billed for that 746 watts, which the meter records.
In other words, that 30 KVA could equal 250 Amps at 120 VAC, but even with that level flowing, the meter only records the 6.22 Amps at 120 VAC, which comprises the 1 horsepower [746 watts].

This extended babbling was the original intent of my first message.

BTW: If you already knew this stuff, please let loose with a well deserved flame, then accept my appologies for the redundancy, along with the arrogancy [Linked Image] [Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Scott SET


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

#126941 - 04/30/01 06:38 AM Re: Power correction Caps  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,303
Scott;
i really don't know that much about metering styles, so i appreciate your replies here.

i did solicit from our local utility a meter rate schedule, there are 13, this in itself is much confusion .

So now i'm wondering just how different metering can really be, maybe we should start a thread on it?

you game?

[Linked Image]


#126942 - 04/30/01 05:10 PM Re: Power correction Caps  
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote
Originally posted by Scott35:
[B]if you had a motor that drew 30,000 Volt-Amps from the line, while it was developing one horsepower on the shaft, you will only be billed for that 746 watts, which the meter records.
In other words, that 30 KVA could equal 250 Amps at 120 VAC, but even with that level flowing, the meter only records the 6.22 Amps at 120 VAC, which comprises the 1 horsepower (746 watts).

Okay, you got my attention!

It sounds like the meters record energy used, not current flow. That's great!
(In another thread I asked about surge suppressors. Did you see that one?)

Would you mind explaining ways and whys that a volt-amp is not necessarily a watt?


#126943 - 05/01/01 12:19 AM Re: Power correction Caps  
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,707
Anaheim, CA. USA
Hi all!!

Sounds like a great topic for a thread, so let's make one.

I'd be glad to cover the VA and Wattage thingee [True power, as opposed to Apparent power].

Got to cut it short tonight, and tomorrow I'll be pulling a 16 Hour deal, ranging from here, to Fullerton, to Murrieta, lastly to San Diego, so Wednesday Night is soonest for me to reply.

Also have rescheduled the meeting with landscaper for Wednesday - I'll post in that thread too.

Scott SET


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!


Member Spotlight
sparky66wv
sparky66wv
West Virginia
Posts: 2,232
Joined: November 2000
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.014s Queries: 14 (0.002s) Memory: 0.8031 MB (Peak: 0.9708 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-03-23 20:03:52 UTC