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#126099 - 03/18/03 08:15 AM Service Cables Used as Feeders
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA


[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 09-10-2003).]
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

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#126100 - 03/18/03 12:52 PM Re: Service Cables Used as Feeders
SvenNYC Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 1685
Loc: New York City
Joe, I've always thought it would make common sense to require that out-of-doors meters be in a protective metal locker with a glass or transparent plastic slit for the meterman to read the dials.

This would be to prevent vandals or the forces of nature from smashing the glass bubble.

That is a common convention in almost all new meter instalations in Colombia (has been for a few years now).

What does the USA code say about this?

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#126101 - 03/18/03 01:09 PM Re: Service Cables Used as Feeders
WebSparky Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/03
Posts: 144
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Hi Joe,

Here is my take.

The conductors looping below meters;

338.10(A)....where protected in accordance with 300.5(D), .....conductors shall be installed in rmc, imc, rnmc80 or equiv.

The conduits rising out of the side walk;

Looks like pvc. Subject to physical damage. Unacceptable. Also, no means of support.

Dave
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Dave

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#126102 - 03/18/03 02:37 PM Re: Service Cables Used as Feeders
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
I'll take a turn,

2002 NEC 338.10(B)(1) and (2) tells us we can use Type SE for feeders.


338.10(B)(4)(b) tells us SE feeders for exterior installations shall, comply with 338, 225 and 334.30

225.10 says we can install multiconductor cables on building surfaces

Joe I am not trying to start some thing here, but I can not find anything in 338.10(B)(4)(b) for exterior installations that says or links to 334 for protection from damage.

In 338.10(B)(4)(a) for interior installations it tells us to install it as per 334

So inside it needs protection 334.15(B) and outside it does not? or am I just not finding it?

Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#126103 - 03/18/03 03:04 PM Re: Service Cables Used as Feeders
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
I was also thinking about the need for a 4-wire feeder, with an insulated neutral commonly called "Type SER" ... see 408.20.

I thought that these cables were subject to damage too, and wanted to see if there were rules that would call for the same protection required for service entrance cable as required by 225.20 Mechanical Protection of Conductors.

Mechanical protection of conductors on buildings, structures, or poles shall be as provided for services in 230.50.

230.50 Protection of Open Conductors and Cables Against Damage — Above Ground.
Service-entrance conductors installed above ground shall be protected against physical damage as specified in 230.50(A) or (B).

(A) Service Cables. Service cables, where subject to physical damage, shall be protected by any of the following:

(1) Rigid metal conduit
(2) Intermediate metal conduit
(3) Schedule 80 rigid nonmetallic conduit
(4) Electrical metallic tubing
(5) Other approved means??

The inside rule requires supports ... anyway this is not a new job, and is located down the street from the casino's in AC.
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

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#126104 - 03/18/03 03:52 PM Re: Service Cables Used as Feeders
energy7 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 58
Loc: Oxnard, CA, USA
Also, is that a street or parking lot to the left? How about concrete filled pipe bollards for EQ. protection.
Don't forget my favorite:
art. 110-3#8 "Practical Safeguarding ..."

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#126105 - 03/18/03 03:58 PM Re: Service Cables Used as Feeders
Electricmanscott Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Holden, MA USA
Looks like ser to me. As far as damage goes I would want to see what the area is, can't really tell from the picture. Otherwise I don't I don't see any major issues.

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#126106 - 03/18/03 04:38 PM Re: Service Cables Used as Feeders
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA


Here's another picture showing the curb in the adjacent parking lot.

I saw no signs of damage in any of the cables.

I agree, 110.3(A)(8) is a great tool for those who are aware of its existance!



[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 03-18-2003).]
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

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#126107 - 03/18/03 06:22 PM Re: Service Cables Used as Feeders
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
The cables looked round to me so I thought SER.
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#126108 - 03/19/03 05:38 AM Re: Service Cables Used as Feeders
txsparky Offline
Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 578
Loc: Magnolia,.Texas U.S.A.
If you look close,you will see that one of the cables (5th cable from the right)has been pulled loose from the wall straps.
IMO,that makes it easy to see that they are subject to physical damage and should be pr0tected according to 110.27.
There also doesn't appear to be enough room beween the disconnect and the curb to satisfy the requirements of 110.26(A)(1)
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Donnie

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