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#125300 - 12/03/04 03:28 AM Reasonable time to complete a job
ddahlgren Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 6
Loc: Mystic, CT USA
here is a short list of things to get done for a new 200 amp service. There are no problems on the job site that would cause any delays. All material is at jobsite within 20 feet of work.
1 journeyman
1 apprentice

1. Install meter can on outside wall
2. drive 2 ground rods with electric hammer
3. connect ground wire to panel and water pipe
4. run 5 feet of entrance cable to panel and connect to main in panel
5. run 16 feet of entrance cable from meter can to weather head making connecions to both
6. should have been 1 but i forgot it.. Fill out permit and file with AHJ that is about 10 minutes between offices and generally no line to 5 minute wait at worst.

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#125301 - 12/03/04 05:38 AM Re: Reasonable time to complete a job
watthead Offline
Member

Registered: 10/13/01
Posts: 182
Loc: South Carolina
ddahlgren
Did you do takeoff and then supply and deliver all material to jobsite. If so why? Can your contractor not afford to? Is this an extra on a bid job?

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#125302 - 12/03/04 05:39 AM Re: Reasonable time to complete a job
Steve Miller Offline
Member

Registered: 08/30/01
Posts: 322
Loc: Loudoun Cty, VA
I generally allow a whole day. If the appren is good it should be less but is seldom longer. I'll carry a couple small work tickets in case I finish earlier. The biggest time killer is the water pipe. If the basement is finished and we need to get within 5' of the incoming this can take as long as anything. There have been times when I had to go outside the building, go all the way around and come back in at the main.

[This message has been edited by Steve Miller (edited 12-03-2004).]

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#125303 - 12/03/04 06:13 AM Re: Reasonable time to complete a job
ddahlgren Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 6
Loc: Mystic, CT USA
It went kind of like this.
8:00 am journey man shows up

8:30 the meter can is on and entrance cable run to panel

9:00 2 ground rods in and hole drilled for ground wire and attached to panel. I did offer the thought that while the wire looks neater at sill level we have snow here and it can easily drift to around a foot or two so please put it 18" above the sill i will sign off if necessary as i don't want any penetrations in the building that could later allow water in that close to the ground.

9:15 gets cell phone call aprrentice is out of gas and has no money have to go pick him up..

9:45 they arrive again all that is left at this point is to run the 16 feet of entrance cable make up the weather head and run the ground back to the water pipe.

they then spend the next 15 minutes discussing personal stuff and complaining about the ladder on the truck. before they head off on another field trip i suggest they just use one of the two or both for that matter ladders on the jobsite owned by me. They are in new condition and right there. Finally they decide that is a better idea than running back to the shop.

From 10:00 to 12:00 run the 16 feet of wire. One working one watching. not even footing the ladder just sitting on the ground staring up at the sky. The apprentice did hold the service cable for a few minutes while the weather head was being attached to take some weight off it.

at 12:00 they are packing to leave and i ask how is this going to pass inspection with no ground at water pipe.
12:00 to 12:15 run wire to water pipe and gone at 12:15

Does it really take 5 1/2 minutes per foot to attach a sevice entrance cable allowing a 1/2 to make up the weather head connection and attach the entrance cable to the meter can? in my book i got billed 4 man hours extra to have a guy there that spent 3 1/2 doing nothing while being billed for 65.00 an hour for him to do nothing.
I did ask the owner of the shop if that was reasonable and he said he would take a drive over and look at the job though he did look at it to start with before his crew came over.

I was doing some interior framing while they were there so that is how i know what transpired.

Is this common practice in the field?
To me it looked like a slow friday and they had 2 jobs to fill up the day one in the morning and one after lunch..

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#125304 - 12/03/04 06:52 AM Re: Reasonable time to complete a job
NJ Wireman Offline
Member

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 179
Loc: New Jersey (South Jersey)
AS far as the;
9:15 gets cell phone call aprrentice is out of gas and has no money have to go pick him up..
Oh well looks like you wont be coming into work today is what i would have said! its not your problem he's broke and out of gas be responsible and plans these things out.

As far as a service change each one is a monster of its own. it could a 2 hour change out or a 8 hour. I've done jobs where i only had to go 10 feet with my cable but it was across under the soffet and around the corner and securing into asbosits shakes that sucks!!!! I would have to say did the job get down? didi you get paid for it? did the h/o complain? in todays times work habits are differant. JUst recently i was sent ot do a easy!! service change. Me my helper and the owner of the co. it took longer with the owner there. All he did was talk, take coffee breaks etc. Had he just stayed in his little den and let the workers do there job i could have been done in 2 hours insted of 6. So one never knows
i know i spelled things wrong in this, thats just me lol

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#125305 - 12/03/04 09:15 AM Re: Reasonable time to complete a job
Mr Bendy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/18/04
Posts: 11
Loc: Hemet,California,USA
Not a good motivator to be a broke apprentice. Hopefully he's not on drugs or something like that. I work jobs for 20 an hour in California...always broke...I sit on unemployment for 6 months...evens everything out in the end...electrical work is a passion as a journeyman...sure aint for the money...thats why alot of JWs move on after their apprenticeship.

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#125306 - 12/03/04 02:00 PM Re: Reasonable time to complete a job
andyp95 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/04
Posts: 47
Loc: Vermont
Was the price for the new service a flat rate price?If so, the electrical contractor was the one to suffer due to the extra time,costs the customer the same either way.We never charge T&M for a new service or service change.

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#125307 - 12/03/04 03:33 PM Re: Reasonable time to complete a job
ddahlgren Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 6
Loc: Mystic, CT USA
I was the GC on the job.. My project my money and the EC was a guy I had known for years as a pretty straight shooter. What I think happened is he has a couple guys that just put their time in with no regard to what they are charging the GC for their screwing off.. It ought to be the EC's problem if his guys don't want to get anything done. At this point I am going to get a little hard a$$ with the EC. Will pay him a reasonable amount for the labor less the kid doing nothing.. The material bill was padded about 40% over what he installed.. IE 40 ft of entrance cable and all I can find is 22 ft even when I allow for the entire length of a 42 breaker panel and double the length of the meter can and 5 ft for the weather head that is closer to 2 ft.... As a GC I feel a little gouged.. If they pull 40 ft off a reel to do a 22 ft job shame on the JW not me..
Dave

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#125308 - 12/03/04 04:25 PM Re: Reasonable time to complete a job
watthead Offline
Member

Registered: 10/13/01
Posts: 182
Loc: South Carolina
If the owner decided to cut your price after the job was complete, I am sure that you would seek legal recourse. If you and the EC come to a mutual agreement about this job that would be fine, but if you were to unilaterally adjust my invoice after the fact, a mechanics lien would be filed. You did not have the stones to give the EC a call and a heads up about what was happening. What is it with the term "general" that causes people to decide that they are the judge and jury and are therefore able to make the rules as they go along??? If you choose not to use this EC in the future, then you should call him and tell him why. He may see your point and adjust your bill. If you don't choose this route, I asure you that he will have no problem in replacing a customer of your caliber. If I find a "general" that is prompt pay, he has my attention and knows that all it takes is a call to have it done his way. The registered lien letters have not failed to produce checks from the other ones that think like you.

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#125309 - 12/03/04 04:55 PM Re: Reasonable time to complete a job
capt al Offline
Member

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 203
Loc: Norton, Ma USA
Dave why won't you answer if this job was T&M or flat rate? T&M job yeah you should have a conversation with the EC. He needs to be made aware of his crews actions. If this is a flat rate job you must have agreed to the price before the EC started. Like watthead I'd put a lien on your project. You said it my project my money and it would be my lien.

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