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#125126 - 03/16/07 01:27 AM The floor sander left this at a job site.
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
 Quote:
The floor sander left this at a job site. It's pretty
safe by flooring company standards. :roll: It's a 30
amp dryer cord with a 20 amp/250 volt twistlock. They
actually wired the twistlock correctly and used black
and red for hot and green wire for the ground. I guess
they never have to worry about the breaker tripping.

Bonus: can you spot something else that's wrong with
this setup?

-Peter (CTwireman)
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#125127 - 03/16/07 05:16 AM Re: The floor sander left this at a job site.
NORCAL Offline
Member

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 807
Besides the "L" being cut off so it can be inserted into a range receptacle and the loose screw on the locking device??

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#125128 - 03/16/07 05:46 AM Re: The floor sander left this at a job site.
ghost307 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 884
Loc: Chicago Illinois USA
Their biggest mistake was leaving it to be found by a member of this website.

We have a picture of it now!!

They're fair game for the slaughter, men; HAVE AT THEM!!
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#125129 - 03/16/07 08:41 AM Re: The floor sander left this at a job site.
mikesh Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 614
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
One thing that comes to mind is typical range cords are listed for Domestic Range use only and even though they fit a 50 amp receptacle the wire inside them is not rated for 50 amps. In this case the load from the Sander won't exceed the ampacity of the cable. I appreciate that these guys go into someone's house with little or no hope of finding a correct rated outlet for their sander and resort to this. It is infinitely better than the guys who pull the cover off the panel and connect direct to a breaker in the panel. In a perfect world a cord adaptor would be available with an o/c device rated for the sander.

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#125130 - 03/16/07 05:18 PM Re: The floor sander left this at a job site.
n1ist Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/02
Posts: 176
Loc: Malden MA
It's missing the battery jumper cable clips to clamp on the panel busbars? A few years ago I saw one clipped to the line side of the main fuses for a 5-story building that shared the pig with half the block. Yikes!

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#125131 - 03/16/07 08:08 PM Re: The floor sander left this at a job site.
yaktx Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/03
Posts: 286
Loc: Austin, Texas, USA
 Quote:
...even though they fit a 50 amp receptacle the wire inside them is not rated for 50 amps.
I don't know about that. The last time I looked at a NEMA 14-50 range cord, the hots were 6 awg, the neutral was 8 awg, and the ground was 10 awg. Table 400.5 states the ampacity of 6 awg(whatever type of cord other than TPT, TST, HPD, HPN, etc, etc.) as 45A for Column A (more than 2 conductors) and 55A for Column B (2 conductors). Since a floor sander uses only 2 conductors, it doesn't matter that the cord came from the factory with 3. I wouldn't nitpick. I'd just give that floor sander guy a medal for being the first floor sander I've ever known to actually bother to try to do things right, instead of reflexively reaching for the %^$#&^% alligator clips when there is already a range or dryer outlet available!

Besides, the nameplate current of a 5hp motor is 28A according to Table 430.148. That means there is nothing wrong with using it on a 30A circuit, as long is it is not a continuous load (and isn't the continuous load rule waived under Article 527 (temporary wiring)?

An example of where the standard range cord would be inappropriate at 50A would be for an RV, since the full neutral ampacity is needed. (Never mind that a 6' long range cord would not be of much benefit as an RV extension cord!)

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#125132 - 03/16/07 08:23 PM Re: The floor sander left this at a job site.
yaktx Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/03
Posts: 286
Loc: Austin, Texas, USA
OK, my mistake, it's a dryer cord, so all the conductors are 10 awg. So, I repeat, has anyone ever seen a floor sander that was over 5hp?

Can we assume that the floor sander contains running overload protective devices? I've never actually studied one that closely, but these things are manufactured by businesses that have to worry about product liability, and I assume their product is listed, so let's say yes.

That leaves branch-circuit short-circuit and ground-fault protection. Table 430.52 says that for an instantaneous-trip breaker (realistically the norm in any residence nowadays), the maximum percentage of full-load current is 800%. 800%*28A>50A. Did I do that right? Article 430 is probably the trickiest article in the NEC, I don't use it all that much, it's late on a Friday night, and I've had a few brews. Even if I'm wrong, I have to give credit to the floor sander guy for at least trying to get it right.

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#125133 - 03/17/07 09:27 AM Re: The floor sander left this at a job site.
Tesla Offline
Member

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 1280
Loc: Sacramento, CA
The adapter is for a 'Hummel' sanding machine.

I've seen Hummels powered up with stripped back and stabbed in conductors (!)

Panel break-ins only occur when no dryer outlet is to be had.

7.5 HP floor sanding machines are available, one is made in Canada.

The scary thing for refinishers is discovering how many old homes are seriously miss-wired... the hard way: shocked by the ground plug.

Not to worry about motor overloads: all of the machines are self protected at levels that assure the health of the 'taps'. These are not unattended machines.

What would be worthwhile would be a plug tester suitable for the need so that these contractors can verify that the receptacle/home is correctly wired and that have a GFCI in-line to their equipment.
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Tesla

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#125134 - 03/17/07 12:46 PM Re: The floor sander left this at a job site.
Texas_Ranger Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2343
Loc: Vienna, Austria
Some things are most definitely easier here... the Hummel is made in Germany (by the way, Hummel means bumblebee) and here those things plug into a 230V 16A Schuko receptacle available in almost every place (only some real old places only have 10A fuses).

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#125135 - 03/17/07 06:57 PM Re: The floor sander left this at a job site.
JohnJ0906 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Baltimore MD USA
I have to admit I agree with those of you that say this is better then the alligator clips-to-main lugs I see all too often

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