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#123368 - 03/27/06 03:41 PM Sealing the Ceiling
electure Offline

Member

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4226
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
Thanks to NORCAL for these:

How would you seal around these conduit penetrations?
The larger conduits are 4", and the ceiling is supposed to be rated.







(The void runs the full length between the 1st and 2nd rows)

[This message has been edited by electure (edited 03-27-2006).]

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#123369 - 03/27/06 04:35 PM Re: Sealing the Ceiling
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Block up the bottom and pour cement back in from above.
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#123370 - 03/27/06 05:04 PM Re: Sealing the Ceiling
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
Can't you use UL listed fire rated Caulk? They also have UL listed fire collars that shrink when they are heated up and provide protection.

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#123371 - 03/27/06 06:06 PM Re: Sealing the Ceiling
Celtic Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 367
Loc: NJ
Caulk it...seriously. Use the red hilti stuff you see in the top picture - pipe bank on right.

You can get a tube of caulk as big as a salami...or you can get the bucket and trowel it in...we do it all the time - by "we", I mean the apprentices and not "me"
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~~ CELTIC ~~
...-= NJ =-...

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#123372 - 03/27/06 06:08 PM Re: Sealing the Ceiling
Celtic Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 367
Loc: NJ
Just remembered...someone (maybe Hilti ??? , I forget)...makes a a sheet metal product that has the fireproofing sandwiched in it. It helps to lay the sandwich out BEFORE you run the pipes.

Just something to keep in the back of the cranium for next time.
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~~ CELTIC ~~
...-= NJ =-...

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#123373 - 03/27/06 06:24 PM Re: Sealing the Ceiling
Redsy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/01
Posts: 2138
Loc: Bucks County PA
Stuff it...


Try a Internet search for--3M Fire Barrier Pillows


[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 03-27-2006).]

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#123374 - 03/28/06 02:10 AM Re: Sealing the Ceiling
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
You guys all have money to 'burn'

Yes all those products will work, but you can buy a few 100 lbs of 'crete for the price of a Hiti salami.

Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#123375 - 03/28/06 10:26 AM Re: Sealing the Ceiling
resqcapt19 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2209
Loc: IL
Bob,
 Quote:
Yes all those products will work, but you can buy a few 100 lbs of 'crete for the price of a Hiti salami.

If the ceiling is required to be fire rated, can you just use cement and meet the requirements?
Don
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Don(resqcapt19)

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#123376 - 03/28/06 11:01 AM Re: Sealing the Ceiling
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Probably, Don. Not too many ceilings have a better fire rating than an equivalent amount of cement, mortar, joint compound, etc. And- with all those pipes passing through, so close to each other- the issue of bonding this patch to the ceiling is kind of moot!

Indeed, for most such penetrations, I suspect simply packing the spaces with fiberglass, then taping over, would probably pass the fire test.

I suppose that ultimately, its' an engineering call, based upon trade practices, comparison to specific ceiling designs, and the acceptance of the AHJ.

Not to be overlooked is the way the pipe itself will conduct heat through the wall, no matter how you seal it. There's only so much a patch can do.

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#123377 - 03/28/06 02:23 PM Re: Sealing the Ceiling
ghost307 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 884
Loc: Chicago Illinois USA
Sealing with concrete will work okay...as long as neither the floor nor the conduits ever move. There's no way for anything to expand with concrete. I had problems with a bus riser bending in a 5 story building because they poured concrete around it.
Also, if you're using the red firestop goop be sure and check the installation instructions. The goop itself isn't the firestop; it's just a part of a UL Listed 'system'. If UL lists it with 2" of packing and 1" of goop, cramming in 3" of goop is a waste of money (that stuff ain't cheap).
I've seen foam or cardboard cut around the conduits to support the packing material and then the right amount of goop on top of it. That seems to pass muster in most places.
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