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#118076 - 08/04/04 06:48 PM New Service & Sub-Panels
Webmaster Offline


Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3148
Loc: NY, USA
Here are some photos of 3 panels that are being installed at a nearby church. I would like some comments on the work to tell the members what is wrong with the installation of them.

- Barry

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#118077 - 08/04/04 07:10 PM Re: New Service & Sub-Panels
electricman2 Offline

Registered: 11/09/03
Posts: 234
Loc: Thomasville, NC USA
From here it looks like the bond screw is installed in both subpanels. Also in panel 2 neutral conductors and ECGs mixed. Neutral and equipment ground bars bonded together. See 250.24(A)(5).

#118078 - 08/04/04 08:17 PM Re: New Service & Sub-Panels
SolarPowered Offline

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 615
Loc: Palo Alto, CA, USA
Looks like the left-hand conduit on Panel 2 has more than 6 current-carrying conductors. I bet they aren't de-rated.

Also, those twin breakers look awfully cheap. Not to mention that the whole panel could be of better quality. I looked around my church recently, and they've got mostly CH stuff--a PRL1a and a PRL3a, and a few that I think are CH's that I didn't check out. A church is a place of assembly; I don't know if the cheapo stuff is code for a place of assembly, but I sure wouldn't want it there.

[This message has been edited by SolarPowered (edited 08-04-2004).]

#118079 - 08/04/04 09:36 PM Re: New Service & Sub-Panels
e57 Offline

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
PVC in "a place of assembly", thats a no. Romex in pic #3!
"Article 518 applies to places of assembly designed or intended for 100 or more persons. Article 518 would apply, for example, to a church chapel or auditorium for occupancy of 100 or more persons, its capacity determined by the methods for occupancy population capacity in accordance with NFPA 101, Life Safety Code."

Double lug neutral in panel 1.

Ground and Neutral mixing at various locations.

Bonding in various locations.

Phase idendification is a minor one.

As for GE, it's not "cheap", but twinning them out, that's cheap.

The maluable off-set, now that's cheap. On a main, I wouldn't do it. Not sure if its kosher for protection of service conductors.
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

#118080 - 08/04/04 11:27 PM Re: New Service & Sub-Panels
Big Jim Offline

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 377
Loc: Denver, CO USA
Looks like it could be a smaller building, might not hold a hundred people. To me, the neutral/ground/bonding are big problems. I guess God must be on the side of churches because it is a miracle most of them don't burn down or hurt people.

#118081 - 08/05/04 02:52 AM Re: New Service & Sub-Panels
Megawatt Offline

Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 74
Loc: Lexington,Ky, USA
When the service drop is deadended on the riser, through bolt straps should be used for support. Looks like some one hole straps is all that's used here.
Around here, the POCO wouldn't have gotten the ladder off the truck .....even if the Inspection passed.

#118082 - 08/05/04 05:26 AM Re: New Service & Sub-Panels
chi spark Offline

Registered: 01/06/04
Posts: 102
Loc: Chicago IL USA
In subpanel 1, those GC's are close to the phase lug. Not so bad in subpanel 2 but wouldn't be bad to run the GC's on the outboard side of the bus and cabinet.

#118083 - 08/05/04 07:28 AM Re: New Service & Sub-Panels
necbuff Offline

Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 27
Loc: Lebanon Tn USA
As for PVC in a place of assembly, It is now permissible in some locations if the proper conditions apply... 518.4 (C)
Kenny Wilee

#118084 - 08/05/04 03:20 PM Re: New Service & Sub-Panels
cpal Offline

Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 165
Loc: Cohasset MA
I'd question the offset nipple with out myers-hubs, I don't think you can get a seal locknut between the shoulder and the enclosures????

How did the NM get in the conduit with the feeder conductors to the second panel

The tie in panel 2 between the neutral and EG Buss??? The green screw on the left looks ok

on the outside I don't see a guy on the mast, the PVC needs an expansion joint between the enclosure and the LB, the clips are not rated for expansion
The feeder neutral in the main panel should be under a seperate lug ala 408.21

[This message has been edited by cpal (edited 08-05-2004).]

#118085 - 08/05/04 05:20 PM Re: New Service & Sub-Panels
NORCAL Offline

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 807
Why would you need a myers hub on the offset nipple? It is below live parts

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