ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 19
Recent Posts
NFPA stuff
by gfretwell. 03/28/17 08:08 PM
Anyone hiring inspectors?
by HotLine1. 03/27/17 08:03 AM
Old decora style outlets
by Admin. 03/25/17 11:40 AM
ESA Arc flash course
by TheShockDoctors. 03/24/17 10:15 AM
fuse rejectors
by HotLine1. 03/24/17 07:53 AM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
231,684 Are you busy
166,592 Re: Forum
160,767 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 64 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#116932 - 05/04/04 09:38 PM Burnt Outlet  
Admin  Offline

Administrator
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,437
NY, USA
Quote
This Spec.Grade kitchen outlet and 12 ga wire were "protected" by an FPE 20 amp breaker.

Dave (aka djpep55)
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Quote
Good advise from FPE:
[Linked Image]


Tools for Electricians:

#116933 - 05/04/04 09:59 PM Re: Burnt Outlet  
caselec  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 558
San Jose, CA
I don’t think I would blame this on the breaker. The connection to the receptacle was probably loose.

Curt


Curt Swartz

#116934 - 05/05/04 01:38 AM Re: Burnt Outlet  
Lostazhell  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,428
Bakersfield, CA (Originally Or...
I'm with Curt on this one.... These are the same recepts I use in my work (P&S BR15W).. The pitting on the neutral wire is a giveaway of a loose terminal.. I can torque the %@%$ out of those without stripping the terminals out (Unlike Leviton, which I usually snap the head of the terminals or strip em out, By HAND!)

Possible, but unlikely... Was a shared neutral being fed through here with both hots on the same phase?

-Randy


#116935 - 05/05/04 07:41 PM Re: Burnt Outlet  
djpep55  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 29
Crystal Lake, IL USA
I think you guys are right on this. I hope the fine folks of FPE can forgive me. I always wrap a solid wire around the screw and use the clamp on stranded. This had the solid wire using the clamp and as I recall it wasn't in the receptacle when I pulled it from the outlet.

Your experience is that the increase in resistance will melt the receptacle and conductor at under 20 amps?

I concur about the quality of P&S. I started using it a few years ago and never went back.

This was not fed through, it was the end of the circuit.

Dave


#116936 - 05/06/04 01:02 AM Re: Burnt Outlet  
Lostazhell  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,428
Bakersfield, CA (Originally Or...
djpep55 wrote:
Quote
Your experience is that the increase in resistance will melt the receptacle and conductor at under 20 amps?


with a loose connection & a load.. Absolutely!
I had a service call to a new home once.. Home was only about 3 years old... The customer almost had a fire in a kitchen receptacle.. I got there & the wall was seriously scorched, plastic 118N box melted like a shrinky-dink, recept looked like something in the back of my fireplace.. I closely examined the recept & noticed something peculiar... The terminal screws were still backed out to factory set! [Linked Image] the installer only wrapped the conductors around the screws not bothering to tighten them down!... I checked EVERY device in that house & found over half were that way! [Linked Image] [Linked Image] The load on the circuit was a 15A 120V jacuzzi plugged in the WP recept outside, which fed through here & from a counter GFI.. (Funny, I thought you weren't allowed to put other loads on the kitchen counter circuits sans the dining room or a couple other kitchen loads).. I wish I had pics from that place.. I only had a few left in my Polaroid at the time & gave them to the customer..

That was an extreme case, but I come across them alot when people start using those little "plug in" heaters..

-Randy

PS.. click here for more "burning fun" http://electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000348.html


#116937 - 05/06/04 02:12 PM Re: Burnt Outlet  
djpep55  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 29
Crystal Lake, IL USA
I'm glad I'm an electrician...that guy will never work on my house & another good reason for using steel boxes.

Dave


#116938 - 05/06/04 02:22 PM Re: Burnt Outlet  
Radar  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 349
Los Angeles, CA
I've pulled out a few receptacles like this - and worse, where a good portion of the receptacle is simply gone! Circuit breakers too, and all caused by lousy connections under load.

Anyone who has any aluminum branch wire installations around their area sees this more commonly than with copper, but it still happens with copper (especially if the installer didn't even bother to tighten the stinking screws!).

Radar


[This message has been edited by Radar (edited 05-06-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Radar (edited 05-06-2004).]


There are 10 types of people. Those who know binary, and those who don't.

#116939 - 05/10/04 07:49 AM Re: Burnt Outlet  
electure  Offline


Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,259
Fullerton, CA USA
Yep, you've gotta tighten them down...S


[Linked Image]


#116940 - 05/15/04 12:18 PM Re: Burnt Outlet  
John Steinke  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 518
Reno,Nv., USA
I've seen the results of a nick in the wire insulation "plasma cutting" the neatest slot in the side of the EMT- without ever tripping a good breaker!
Visit any weld shop, and look at the settings on the machines. A LOT of welding is done with less than 2000 watts. Or, even, twenty amps.
It is very possible for a lot of melting to happen without tripping a breaker. We just don't appreciate just how much energy is available in a 20A/120V circuit.


#116941 - 05/15/04 05:54 PM Re: Burnt Outlet  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
djpep55, what does a steel box have to do with anything. I would be more concerned about a proper installation. If done correctly it wouldn't matter if you had no box. [Linked Image]


Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
The_Lightman
The_Lightman
Orlando, Fl, USA
Posts: 49
Joined: August 2001
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.023s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8185 MB (Peak: 0.9945 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-03-29 05:28:30 UTC