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#115161 - 08/20/03 10:07 PM Critique Away, Please  
Admin  Offline

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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,434
NY, USA
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Hi.

This is a new service that was installed in a house nearby that is being totally renovated. I noticed a few things right off the bat:

1. The temporary circuits, though temporary, were not terminated properly at the panel (through a knockout, etc.)

2. The neutral (with gray tape--I thought only white is permitted now?) and the GEC are terminated at the same bus bar.

3. There is not 30" of clearance to the left of the panel (that is necessary, correct?)

What else (if anything) catches your eye?

- thinkgood


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#115162 - 08/20/03 10:19 PM Re: Critique Away, Please  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Type AC cable must be connected to the panel for grounding continuity along with strain relief and protection.

The 30" can start at one edge of the panel, as long as you have 30" total space, although given a choice I would like it centered on the panel.

Oh this looks like a Main Panel (it better be the bonding jumper is installed) which means the GEC should be on the neutral bar and the circuit grounds can be on there too.

If this is a sub panel it is all goofed up.

I gotta go I think my transformer lunch is ready. [Linked Image]

Bob

[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 08-20-2003).]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#115163 - 08/21/03 12:05 AM Re: Critique Away, Please  
Big Jim  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 394
Denver, CO USA
I love the wonderful ground system. If this is temporary or construction power, I wsonder if there is ground fault protection on the end of any of that. Pray for the tradesmen on that job. They may need it.


#115164 - 08/21/03 06:45 AM Re: Critique Away, Please  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Quote
The neutral (with gray tape--I thought only white is permitted now?)

NEC 200.6 appears to allow either white or gray for any grounded conductor/neutral. But isn't white the most usual choice on 120/240V systems, with gray used mostly on 277/480 ?


#115165 - 08/21/03 07:36 AM Re: Critique Away, Please  
electure  Offline


Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,259
Fullerton, CA USA
See 200.6 (B)....."or at the time of installation by a distinctive white marking at its terminations".
Nope, no grey tape.
This appears to be a Cutler-Hammer panel, but it doesn't look new. Seems to me they don't make the breakers with the tan (or grey in the case of bolt in) handles on them anymore, and there's quite a bit of dust collected on the top of the top 2 breakers.
On the bottom pic, you can see that not only are the AC cables not terminated properly, the guys didn't even knockout the KOs all the way!...S


#115166 - 08/21/03 11:32 AM Re: Critique Away, Please  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Oops! I stand corrected. [Linked Image]

I didn't read ahead enough for the 200.6(B) part applying to conductors larger than #6.


#115167 - 08/21/03 02:44 PM Re: Critique Away, Please  
ThinkGood  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,081
Milwaukee, WI
Actually, this is still as-is, in an area where the basement is being totally redone (I mean, old pipes being dug up, etc.)

The install isn't more than 2 or 3 months old!

Question: This panel feeds some subpanels, using 6/3 AC cable. (No individual ground conductor). Is that OK per code? If so, would you rely on armor (assuming the bonding strip was properly terminated with the armor) for a ground?


#115168 - 08/21/03 08:39 PM Re: Critique Away, Please  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
Is it possible that this is old wiring to be removed when renovation is complete?


#115169 - 08/22/03 12:11 PM Re: Critique Away, Please  
ZackDitner  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 47
Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
well, if you're depending on the armour of the cable of all that bx as a ground, you'd think there would at least be a clamp..

i see 2 NM cables with the grounding wire simply cut off..

wow, i wonder what the inspector got for this one.. it would have had to been inspected with at least that funky ground wire when the panel was installed wouldn't you think? unless they did it with the line from the meter hot as an upgrade..


#115170 - 08/22/03 01:13 PM Re: Critique Away, Please  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
By electure
Quote
See 200.6 (B)....."or at the time of installation by a distinctive white marking at its terminations".
Nope, no grey tape.


The next logical question would be why can I run gray or white conductors for Neutral but I can only mark them white with tape?

2002 NEC 200.6(B)
Quote
(B) Sizes Larger Than 6 AWG. An insulated grounded conductor larger than 6 AWG shall be identified either by a continuous white or gray outer finish or by three continuous white stripes on other than green insulation along its entire length or at the time of installation by a distinctive white marking at its terminations. This marking shall encircle the conductor or insulation.


Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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