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#114785 - 06/26/03 09:50 PM Cooked Wires  
Admin  Offline

Administrator
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,434
NY, USA
[Linked Image]

Comments?

- ThinkGood


Tools for Electricians:

#114786 - 06/26/03 10:58 PM Re: Cooked Wires  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,798
Brick, NJ USA
Think Good:
Another good reason not to "back stab" receptacles.
Looking close...is that a little bit of green corrosion on the black conductor??

Looks like THW insulation, metal box, so a guess it's BX. Self-grounding receptacle (look at the top yoke), appears to be "newer" as it's probably been replaced.
Thinking further, the wire may have been bad, or starting when the device was replaced. Finally, the circuit may be over-fused, and/or having a "heavy" load on for extended time. (Electric heater, cooking appliances, etc)

Lastly, also could be excessive "heat" from the male attachment plug.
John


John

#114787 - 06/26/03 11:55 PM Re: Cooked Wires  
PCBelarge  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA
I know that UL and ANSI and others work on putting the standards (minimums) together, but the guys in the field run into this all the time. I think it is time for this standard to be revisited and revised (upwards).

Pierre


Pierre Belarge

#114788 - 06/27/03 03:41 AM Re: Cooked Wires  
ThinkGood  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,081
Milwaukee, WI
Hi, John.
Long time...etc.

I can tell you do this for a living!

This is from a neighbor's kitchen that was recently redone.

The photo didn't show the green very well, but the hot did have green on it.

The conductors were from BX. It's too late to find the conductors to check, but the insulation was thicker than what is found in Romex (Is that THHN?). There was no grounding conductor in the cable. Does that confirm THW?

P. S. If this was not in an area being renovated, assuming the overload protection was the correct rating and the device was replaced with a GFCI (as this was in a kitchen), would the BX be considered safe to use? (Does that browned area cause the whole run to be questionable?)

P. P. S. How reliable is a ground on a "self-grounding" device? The box was somewhat corroded.

Pierre:
Do you mean the 75ºC rating?

[This message has been edited by ThinkGood (edited 06-27-2003).]


#114789 - 06/27/03 07:00 AM Re: Cooked Wires  
PCBelarge  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA
Hello Thinkgood

I meant the 'backstabbing', what UL and manufacturers call 'pushin'. I get calls all the time relating to this. It is funny how all say they would never do this, who is doing it then?
BTW - I live by the Tappen Zee Bridge, is that pretty close to you?

Pierre


Pierre Belarge

#114790 - 06/28/03 03:27 AM Re: Cooked Wires  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,211
SI,New Zealand
ThinkGood,
Mama's got something good cookin' there, mate!. [Linked Image]
It's sure been hot in there.


Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

#114791 - 06/28/03 06:34 AM Re: Cooked Wires  
electure  Offline


Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,259
Fullerton, CA USA
Got to love those backstabbers.
The insulation in the cable is most likely type TW (60°C). Type THW has a much thicker insulation, and was generally used in conduit, rather than cable.
Would the green patina be from the conductor getting wet??...S


#114792 - 06/28/03 07:14 AM Re: Cooked Wires  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,211
SI,New Zealand
Steve,
What is back-stabbing, in relation to this posting?


Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

#114793 - 06/28/03 09:41 PM Re: Cooked Wires  
stamcon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 329
So San Francisco CA
Trumpy, "back stabbing" is when the wire is inserted into a hole in the back of the device. The electrical continuity between the conductor and the device is derived by a springy(?) clip that pushes against the wire. The connection is no where close to being as good, as the wire being under a screw. The initial result of course is heat build-up.


#114794 - 06/28/03 10:07 PM Re: Cooked Wires  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,875
NY, USA
Trumpy,

I think it's a similar connection to what the Wago connectors use if you are familiar with those.

Bill


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