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#113579 - 07/24/02 08:35 PM XXXX the Carpenter
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Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3142
Loc: NY, USA
 Quote:
Hey Guys, I thought you might like to see the handy work of a carpenter named XXXX. He told the homeowner that he used to be a licensed electrician in Florida, but "chose" not to get a Georgia license. The home owner called me when they saw the open splice near the light in the attic (feeding the new whirlpool tub) and because the lights dimmed dramatically when the hair dryer or whirlpool were used. These are just a few of the problems found in the attic.

-Electric Eagle
 Quote:
... Here are a few more pictures of XXXX the carpenter's electrical work. After we saw the quality work performed in the attic, the home owner had us take every fixture and device apart to correct any/all problems. Many of the connections were loose and some wires pulled out of the wirenuts without twisting. The GFCI's were all mis-wired.









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#113580 - 07/25/02 01:02 AM Re: XXXX the Carpenter
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
As someone has said of my pics, 3000 miles apart and yet so many similarities.

The "flying splice" and other associated shoddy work seems to be a universal problem.

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#113581 - 07/25/02 05:56 AM Re: XXXX the Carpenter
cajun Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/25/02
Posts: 7
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
Hello all,

From "lurking" on this bulletin board for a while, I've picked up on a lot of jargon, so I can understand most of the postings now. I do have some questions, but only one for now. I assume that a "flying splice" is one that is done in the middle of a wiring run without benefit of a box or fixture. Is there a legal method for doing this, or must you cut out the too-short wire and run a new length from box to box? Just trying to avoid having any of my amateur work show up here...

I think the most household wiring work I've done so far is replace a lamp fixture or two, no running of new wire or anything unless it was speaker wire. I'm buying a house soon, however, and I might need to do a little touch-up here and there from time to time. I've done plenty of small appliance, household electronics and automotive wiring work though. I'll probably need to get a newer copy of the NEC, mine is from 1975...

Thanks,
-cajun

[This message has been edited by cajun (edited 07-25-2002).]
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#113582 - 07/25/02 06:32 AM Re: XXXX the Carpenter
mamills Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/01
Posts: 739
Loc: Wharton, Texas, USA
Eagle:
Looks like the tip of a very large iceberg. I would imagine you must have done nothing short of a complete rewiring of this house.

It's a good thing the homeowner discovered that something was amiss and called you in to straighten out this mess, before having to call 911.

I wonder how many other "jobs" this carpenter has done?

Cajun: Welcome to ECN! I'm a little fuzzy on the concept of the "flying splice" myself. I do know this about splices (anyone please correct me): 1) splices are required to be made in some type of approved box, not just simply out in the open, 2) splices cannot be made in any form where it is inaccessible (i.e. hidden inside a wall), 3) the box in which the splice is made cannot be left to simply float about; it needs to be secured in place, 4) the box cannot contain more than a certain number of conductors, based on the size of the box, 5) wires entering the box need to be secured to the box by some approved type of clamp, and 6) the box must be grounded.
I assume those are at least the very basics. Can others add to or correct this?

Mike (mamills)

[This message has been edited by mamills (edited 07-25-2002).]

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#113583 - 07/25/02 03:17 PM Re: XXXX the Carpenter
CTwireman Offline
Member

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 839
Loc: Connecticut, USA
I think the "Photos submitted for Discussion" area should be renamed "Hall of Shame."

This wiring is beyond hack....It's tragic.

Yes, the "flying splice" is quite common among amateurs and even among a few so-called professionals. The splices lying in the insulation are perfect examples.

You just about covered it, Mike. Box fill is also determined by the size of the wire in addtion to the size of the box.
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Peter

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#113584 - 07/25/02 05:14 PM Re: XXXX the Carpenter
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
Hey everyone,

I have been following these types of BB's for years. I love them. Everyone will get some information out of them sooner or later. As for anyone who "Lurks", do not be afraid, we are all here because we love to talk about electrical codes. Some of us, from all walks of life, but we all want to learn or talk about electrical codes. So please post any question you have about electrical wiring and I am sure some one will responed.


Caper

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#113585 - 07/25/02 06:03 PM Re: XXXX the Carpenter
Electric Eagle Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 928
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
Hey Guys, It took me and a helper a day and a half to straighten out all the problems here. The worst part about it all was that they blew in pink fiberglass on top of all the new work, so we had to fish around it it to find the wires and repair them.

We did end up re-wiring all the new items including running 2 dedicated circuits from the basement for the master bath outlets and whirlpool. I do worry about the liability of taking a job like this, am I now responsible if I missed a problem like a "flying splice" in the wall? I may start requiring arc fault breakers any time we fix a problem like this.

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#113586 - 07/26/02 02:57 AM Re: XXXX the Carpenter
Trainwire Offline
Member

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 364
Loc: Strasburg,PA,USA
What I find interesting about all this, is wouldn't it have been easier to do it right? The time it takes to wind all the tape around the splices, you could have mounted a box and done it the way it is supposed to be done.
This guy needs a whacking big capacitor wired to his chair to remind him every time he sits down.

Trainwire

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#113587 - 07/26/02 08:42 AM Re: XXXX the Carpenter
mamills Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/01
Posts: 739
Loc: Wharton, Texas, USA
Eagle:
Glad to hear you were able to remove or mitigate the conditions that were visible to you. Not being a legal mind of course, I would think that written documentation of work you have done, along with the risks of yet undiscovered problems/shortcomings in the wiring (and I would be willing to bet there are still some nasty little surprises lurking about) and signed by you and Mr. Homeowner would at least be a good place to start.

Mr.XXXX obviously should give up his electrical "practice" and return to carpentry. I only hope he can join two pieces of wood together better than he can two pieces of wire.

CT: Absolutely. Conductor size is a very important component in figuring box fill. Had a long night, the night before (two house fires). I'm lucky I could remember my own name Thurs. morning. Thanks.

Mike (mamills)

[This message has been edited by mamills (edited 07-26-2002).]

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#113588 - 07/26/02 02:12 PM Re: XXXX the Carpenter
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
 Quote:

1) splices are required to be made in some type of approved box, not just simply out in the open, 2) splices cannot be made in any form where it is inaccessible (i.e. hidden inside a wall), 3) the box in which the splice is made cannot be left to simply float about; it needs to be secured in place, 4) the box cannot contain more than a certain number of conductors, based on the size of the box, 5) wires entering the box need to be secured to the box by some approved type of clamp, and 6) the box must be grounded.


With due allowances for different style fittings, that's pretty much the same as is required over here in England. (Most of it is just common sense really!)

About the only major difference is that our j-boxes don't normally have built-in cable clamps, so they need to be clipped near to the box.

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