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#109359 - 10/14/05 02:27 AM Sheet Metal Screw For Neutral!
iwire Offline
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Went on a service call for tripped breakers and found this.



We don't need no stinking lug kits, go to the truck and get me a 1" x 10 SMS and a fender washer.

I believe they pulled off a neutral bar to make space for this modification.

It was definitely a quality job, my call was for "exit signs, EBUs, wall outlets and fire alarm panel not working".

It turns out they where all on one circuit. I did find two conductors on that one breaker and separated that, but the FACP is still not a dedicated circuit.

I have recommend they have us come in and pull some new circuits. I doubt they will spend the money.

Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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#109360 - 10/14/05 04:03 AM Re: Sheet Metal Screw For Neutral!
electure Offline


Member
Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4229
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
Don't let the batteries go dead on your camera, Bob.
Seems to me anyway that if there isn't a change made in this one, you will be back at some time and posting a picture reminiscent of a couple of others you've posted in the past.
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#109361 - 10/14/05 12:17 PM Re: Sheet Metal Screw For Neutral!
CTwireman Offline
Member
Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 839
Loc: Connecticut, USA
This installation looks fairly new, is it not?

Isn't it a local code violation to not have the FA panel on a dedicated circuit?
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Peter
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#109362 - 10/14/05 05:35 PM Re: Sheet Metal Screw For Neutral!
stamcon Offline
Member
Registered: 03/24/01
Posts: 322
Loc: So San Francisco CA
What's up with the AL grounded conductor in the lug to the right of the screw/washer? It looks cooked, as does the insulation.

steve
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#109363 - 10/14/05 07:46 PM Re: Sheet Metal Screw For Neutral!
Elviscat Offline
Member
Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 214
Loc: Seattle Washington USA
stamcon- I believe that the browning that makes that right hand grounded conductor look cooked is anti-oxident gel, you can see a little of the same thing on the left hand conductor as well, on the bare wire right above the lug

-Will
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#109364 - 10/14/05 08:01 PM Re: Sheet Metal Screw For Neutral!
LoneWolf Offline
Junior Member
Registered: 08/29/05
Posts: 7
Loc: Ontario
What about the far right lug in looks like it arked... or is that also oxident gel
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if some one hands you lemons use the juice to blind them
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#109365 - 10/15/05 03:11 AM Re: Sheet Metal Screw For Neutral!
iwire Offline
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
CT I believe that NFPA 72 requires a dedicated circuit for fire alarm systems.


scouter, that is just a glob of anti-oxidant gel.

Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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#109366 - 10/15/05 04:28 AM Re: Sheet Metal Screw For Neutral!
pauluk Offline
Member
Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
Quote:
It was definitely a quality job, my call was for "exit signs, EBUs, wall outlets and fire alarm panel not working".

It turns out they where all on one circuit.


That reminds me of a commercial job my father was involved with pricing way back in the 1970s.

When he examined the plans he found an elevator alarm system was shown as running on the same circuit as the elevator control gear itself.
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#109367 - 10/15/05 07:14 AM Re: Sheet Metal Screw For Neutral!
George Corron Offline
Member
Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 728
Loc: Lorton, Va USA
Stuck at work on Saturday, so here is the 1999 NFPA 72

1-5.2.5.2 Connections to the light and power service SHALL be on a dedicated branch circuit(s). The circuit(s) and connections shall be mechanically protected. Circuit disconnecting means SHALL have a red marking shall be accessible only to authorized personnel, an shall be identified as FIRE ALARM CIRCUIT CONTROL. The location of the circuit disconnecting means shall be permanently identified at the fire alarm control unit.

Enjoy!!!
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#109368 - 10/15/05 10:13 AM Re: Sheet Metal Screw For Neutral!
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Nice cite, George. Anybody live where NFPA 72 has been adopted?

As for the sheet metal screw- where's the violation? Doesn't the NEC only address ground screws?

Allright, hold your horses. Hackwork is hackwork. Just pointing out the weaknesses of the code!

I think we went down a blind alley with the "sheet metal screw" provision. If nothing else, it sets the stage for a conflict with 110.14(A).
How about a general provision that connectors will be used as designed? The "sheet metal screw" issue came up, IMO, not because of the screw itself, but because the screws were being used improperly (too large of a hole, etc). Improper use will make any fastener fail.


Meanwhile, back to the pic. Just what is the screw attached to? Are we inadvertantly bonding the neutral to the case with it?
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