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#108841 - 08/23/01 08:29 PM Ag Fair temp service
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Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3142
Loc: NY, USA
Posted for Sparky:









 Quote:
This is somewhat in step with Virgil's concerns for the Full Moon fair temp service. These are pix of a panel at our local Ag-fair, two-headed chickens, bearded lady...and panel by satan ! My 4 yr old was about to get a drink of water when I noted this....I got her a coke at the stand instead....
The fairgrounds are supplied via a pole hung temp that feeds a number of old W/P panels like this one via 3-wire direct buried URD, most are old , rusted, missing the internal covers, and have burnt lugs and/or busses. By far, the amazing 'flying splice' is what jumps out here...

Steve
aka sparky....

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#108842 - 08/24/01 05:26 AM Re: Ag Fair temp service
electure Offline

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Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4226
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
Steve,
This is probably the only panel in the country that doesn't have a bunch of junk in front of it, and unfortunately it's badly in need of said junk to keep people away

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#108843 - 08/25/01 11:05 AM Re: Ag Fair temp service
sparky Offline
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Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
LOL!!
This is energized every year for this event, so it sits there and accumulates decay. All the pole mounts ( I think i counted 3) are about the same caliber. They are all fed via triplex from the 'main temp' which appears every year before the event on the closest utility pole.
So the Q comes....is it within the definition of 'temp'? , or is it an 'existing' installation?
Does 'temp' imply the entire constuction or the annual energizing of this mess???
If we are to pursue the 'existing' angle, are these violations grandfathered, and allowed to reenergize annually?

Note there is not a single GFI, and i did not investigate the main temp as to any compliance with 215-9

Note also the interior panel covers are off, I did not remove anything here, and the outer covers were unlatched, so a child could easily stick a hand up in there.

What would U do???

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#108844 - 08/26/01 01:37 PM Re: Ag Fair temp service
electure Offline

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Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4226
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
You might send the management an e-mail asking for their advice! Heehee, Only teasing, I just got another e-mail w/ that pesky computer worm attached (not from you)

I'd try a phone call to the "powers that be", suggest at a minimum padlocking the panels, and state your case for more. If that doesn't work - Send via e-mail - Send via snail mail - Send Certified - Wait 'til next year, walk over to one of the panels and scream "They're trying to kill me!!" at the top of your lungs. 'Is there an attorney in the house?". Whatever it takes. It beats losing a life to somebody's neglect. They might not even know there's a problem.

Per Code, looks like 305-2(b) and (d), when used in conjunction with each other, should answer any questions they have. I've seen too much junk that was permanently temporary as well.

[This message has been edited by electure (edited 08-26-2001).]

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#108845 - 08/28/01 04:18 AM Re: Ag Fair temp service
sparky Offline
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Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
Note there is not a single GFI, and i did not investigate the main temp as to any compliance with 215-9

It occurs to me that 110V loads could not survive off a 220V gfi...

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#108846 - 08/29/01 05:29 PM Re: Ag Fair temp service
Anonymous
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>It occurs to me that 110V loads could not survive off a 220V gfi...

What do you mean by this, please?

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#108847 - 08/30/01 03:12 AM Re: Ag Fair temp service
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
Dspark,
these subs are all fed via triplex, the N&G are bonded...there is a G-rod beneath. To assumeably pull a 215-9 via 2-pole 60A GFI to this would not work for 110V loads.

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#108848 - 01/20/04 04:03 PM Re: Ag Fair temp service
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
An update....
I attend this fair every year, and have watched as this system, which is energized by the poco for one week a year, degrade bit by bit, increasing the potential for the next Greyson Yoe.
Some can pick out the hazards, most simply walk by them…

I had, at the time made some noise about this in my state, unfortunately my state only inspects ‘complex structures’ here. This was a very unpopular change brought about by none other than the cable tv cabal’s manipulation of legislation, the crux being their pole mounted meter/mains & x-formers.

All the people i e-mailed these photos to, and talked to in the state agreed to the hazard here, yet claimed their hands were politically tied. A few hinted to me that volume constituted clout, insinuating outsiders en masse’ holding the greater trump card.

It’s mighty hard to place a positive spin on something like this, because as the years go by for me and my mates in ems, certain incidents leaves one inevitably questioning the repetitiveness of those who fall through the cracks in the system , and yes it gets ‘political’ wheather we like it or not.

And as we all know, questioning authority can be inherently negative, nobody is popular doing so , yet is a necessary component of critique , just as it is debate here.
Short of this, we assume a nuetral position of perpetual shock amounting to nothing more than an awe gee or say it ain’t so.

Pointing out that there is a problem to these sorts is the first step to a solution , acting on it via a group consensus could be right here, at our fingertips…

Just a thought...... ~S~

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#108849 - 01/21/04 04:18 AM Re: Ag Fair temp service
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
It might not be much consolation, but the bureaucratic/political mind seems to work the same the world over. They'll constantly come up with excuses why nothing can be done about something as bad as this mess at your fair, yet will be all too eager to jump on the latest safety bandwagon over some trivial little matter.

Hey, just throw an AFCI or two into that panel -- That should make everything safe, right?

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#108850 - 01/21/04 10:16 AM Re: Ag Fair temp service
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
 Quote:
Pointing out that there is a problem to these sorts is the first step to a solution , acting on it via a group consensus could be right here, at our fingertips…
Sparky,

Seems like a smart lawyer would have a field day if somebody got hurt here.

Who is the POCO? I wonder if they've considered their liability for energizing this sort of thing?

Bill

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