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#102130 - 03/15/05 08:42 AM Why there is no requirements for CT or PT in CEC?
peterpang Offline
Member
Registered: 01/08/05
Posts: 19
Loc: toronto
Can somebody explain it to me?Thanks!
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#102131 - 03/15/05 01:35 PM Re: Why there is no requirements for CT or PT in CEC?
bigrockk Offline
Member
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 175
Loc: Middle of Canada
If you are referring to pt's and ct's integral to "equipment", Rule 2-024 address this. The equipment must be approved. This is performed by an agency such as Entela, CSA or other agencies that are approved to do equipment testing.
If you are referring to metering equipment this is addressed in Section 6 starting at 6-400.
Is this what you were looking for? The question is a little vague so I wasn't sure.
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#102132 - 03/15/05 03:43 PM Re: Why there is no requirements for CT or PT in CEC?
peterpang Offline
Member
Registered: 01/08/05
Posts: 19
Loc: toronto
Thanks bigrockk!
What I am talking about is Metering Equipment.
What I want to do is to determine the conductor size for a potential transformer secondary load.
So can you tell me which code section should be applied in this case?

Thanks again!

[This message has been edited by peterpang (edited 03-15-2005).]
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#102133 - 03/15/05 04:54 PM Re: Why there is no requirements for CT or PT in CEC?
bigrockk Offline
Member
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 175
Loc: Middle of Canada
Hey no problem Peter

26-258 to 26-258(4) Refers to conductor sizing for Transformers.
With that said and not knowing your exact application, as you are probably well aware most PT'S secondary connections feed high impedance loads such as a voltmeter. So the rated secondary current of the PT is usually quite small and the wiring size is not much of an issue unless you are thinking of using very small wires??
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#102134 - 03/15/05 06:29 PM Re: Why there is no requirements for CT or PT in CEC?
peterpang Offline
Member
Registered: 01/08/05
Posts: 19
Loc: toronto
Yes,bigrockk.

That is what I was confused!!!!

Since the amperes in the secondary is so small,how to select proper conductor for this kind of transformer?Is there any standard size for it?

Thanks!Looking forward to your reply!
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#102135 - 03/15/05 09:27 PM Re: Why there is no requirements for CT or PT in CEC?
CRM Offline
Member
Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 73
Loc: Alberta Canada
Your local power company will be able to answer what size wire and fuse they use. Where I live, the power company wires the pt's and the secondary of the ct's. Rule 26-260 covers the overcurrent protection of instrument transformers.
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#102136 - 03/16/05 07:52 AM Re: Why there is no requirements for CT or PT in CEC?
bigrockk Offline
Member
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 175
Loc: Middle of Canada
It's hard to determine wire size without knowing your exact circumstances and rules in your area.
CRM had some good advice as far as checking with your power company.
If they cannot help for your specific application then the AHJ will surely help.
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#102137 - 03/16/05 12:25 PM Re: Why there is no requirements for CT or PT in CEC?
Tony Moscioni Offline
Moderator
Registered: 05/15/01
Posts: 144
Loc: CANADA
C22.2 No. 115-M1989
(Reaffirmed 2000)
Meter-Mounting Devices

Industrial Products

4.11* Wiring Space and Wire-Bending Space

4.11.1
Wiring space and wire-bending space for field-installed conductors shall comply with the requirements of CSA Standard C22.2 No. 0.12, except as specified in Clauses 4.11.7 and 4.11.8 and the additional requirements of Clauses 4.11.2 to 4.11.6.

4.11.2
Wiring space and wire-bending space for field-installed conductors shall be determined on the basis of the following assumptions:

(a) Conductors shall be type RW75. The minimum size shall be No. 12 AWG. The minimum conductor size shall be shown in Table 10 of the CE Code, Part I.
(b) Where a meter socket is marked as suitable for use with copper or aluminum wire, the conductors shall be aluminum.
(c) Where it is intended that a meter socket may be connected by a single conductor or by two or more conductors in parallel, wiring and wire-bending spaces shall be provided for the arrangement requiring the largest space.


4.11.3
Where it is intended that line and load conductors enter and exit the same wall of the meter socket, sufficient wiring space shall be provided for the total number of conductors required to occupy the space between the wall and the termination facilities.

4.11.4
Where a permanently installed barrier is provided to prevent the running of conductors from end-to-end in a meter socket the requirement of Clause 4.11.3 shall apply.
4.11.5
Wiring space in a meter socket may be provided in one or more side gutters.

4.11.6
Where wire connectors are the "lay-in" type or are readily removable the wire-bending space shall comply with the requirements of Table 3 of CSA Standard C22.2 No. 0.12.
4.11.7
Where wire connectors are directed towards the end wall at an angle of 45 ± 3° the wire-bending space shall comply with the requirements of Table 3 of CSA Standard C22.2 No. 0.12.
4.11.8
Where wire connectors are the "lay-in" type or are readily removable and are directed towards the end wall at an angle of 45 ± 3° the wire-bending space shall comply with the requirements of Table 4 of CSA Standard C22.2 No. 0.12.

5.7*
Transformer-rated meter-mounting devices that are not provided with secondary wiring shall be marked to show the wiring method or shall be marked with the following, or equivalent:
THIS DEVICE IS SUPPLIED WITHOUT SECONDARY WIRING. THE METER SOCKET MUST BE WIRED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LOCAL UTILITY'S REQUIREMENTS.
and
CE DISPOSITIF EST FOURNI SANS CABLAGE AU SECONDAIRE. RACCORDER L'EMBASE DE COMPTEUR CONFORMÉMENT AUX EXIGENCES DU FOURNISSEUR D'ÉLECTRICITÉ LOCAL.
This marking shall be on the outside of the front cover.
5.8*
Transformer-rated meter-mounting devices intended for field installation of current transformers, busbars, and connectors for supply conductors shall be marked to show
(a) the ampere rating and type of current transformers that may be used;
(b) the method of assembly; and
(c) the secondary wiring method in accordance with Clause 5.7.

Tony Moscioni
Electrical Inspector
Electrical Safety Authority
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#102138 - 03/16/05 02:18 PM Re: Why there is no requirements for CT or PT in CEC?
peterpang Offline
Member
Registered: 01/08/05
Posts: 19
Loc: toronto
Tony,I have two questions to ask you after reading your post!
1)What is the relationship between C22.1 and C22.2? For a long time,I was confused that why I just have Part I of Code.Can u explain it to me?

2)I think that the proper clause that should be applied in this circumstance(I have a PT of 120VA) is C22.1-02,16-210(4).Do you think I am right?

Thanks!waitting for your reply!
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#102139 - 03/16/05 03:00 PM Re: Why there is no requirements for CT or PT in CEC?
Tony Moscioni Offline
Moderator
Registered: 05/15/01
Posts: 144
Loc: CANADA
Peter,

The Canadian Electrical Code is a publication issued by CSA in several parts. Among these are Part I, which establishes safety standards for the installation and maintenance of electrical equipment, and Part II, which consists of safety standards governing the construction, testing, and marking of electrical equipment.

Question #1) CAN/CSA-C22.1 is the Canadian Electrical Code

This Standard covers the following:

Scope
This Code covers all electrical work and electrical equipment operating or intended to operate at all voltages in electrical installations for buildings, structures, and premises, including factory-built relocatable and non-relocatable structures, and self-propelled marine vessels stationary for periods exceeding five months and connected to a shore supply of electricity continuously or from time to time, with the following exceptions:

(a) Installations or equipment employed by an electric, a communication, or a community antenna distribution system utility in the exercise of its function as a utility, and located outdoors or in buildings or sections of buildings used for that purpose; and

(b) Equipment and facilities that are used in the operation of an electric railway and are supplied exclusively from circuits that supply the motive power; and

(c) Installations or equipment used for railway signalling and railway communication purposes, and located outdoors or in buildings or sections of buildings used exclusively for such installations; and

(d) Aircraft; and

(e) Electrical systems in ships which are regulated under the Canadian Coast Guard, Ship Safety Branch, Ship Safety Electrical Standards.

For mines and quarry applications, see also CSA Standard CAN/CSA-M421.

Rationale. The Scope states the extent and coverage of the requirements of the CE Code, Part I, as well as the limitations or exceptions.
Intent. We intend the CE Code, Part I, to apply to all voltages because even when voltages are low enough not to be a shock hazard, a startle-effect might lead to an injury and/or a condition may occur which creates a thermal hazard.

The CE Code, Part I, does not apply to electrical installations used by utilities that are electrical, communication, or a community antenna distribution system, in their function as a utility, but does apply to the wiring system and equipment used in their buildings for general office use. building used as a receiving/transmitting station for a community antenna distribution system, a central exchange building used by a communication utility, or a generating station used by an electrical utility is not covered, and portions or sections of their buildings that are closed to the public and used primarily for this purpose are not included in the Scope.

It is not the intention that requirements in the CE Code, Part I, apply to electrical installations that are installed on rights of way or public thoroughfares by a utility.

In spite of the overall coverage implied by the word “all” in the first sentence of the Scope, it was never the intent, or so we believe, that the CE Code, Part I, apply to the ordinary automobile. The CE Code, Part I, does apply to such portions of the electrical wiring and electrical equipment as lighting and power circuits connected to an external source of power, eg, in a motor home or a recreational vehicle.

Luminaires, regardless of voltage, can create thermal hazards and thus should not be excluded from the requirements of this Code. The intent of the word “premises” in the Scope is to include a house or building with its grounds and appurtenances.

Generators or alternators used for supplying power from the unit to portable tools and/or lighting units should be approved as otherwise required by the CE Code, Part I.

The CE Code, Part I, does not apply to that portion of electric railways used in their operation and supplied from that circuit supplying the motive power.

The CE Code, Part I, does not apply to electrical installations and electrical equipment used for railway signalling and railway communication purposes, and located outdoors, or in buildings or parts of buildings used exclusively for such electrical installations. However, portions of the buildings used for offices are covered.

The CE Code, Part I, does not apply to aircraft of any type.

The CE Code, Part I, does not apply to self-propelled marine vessels, unless the vessels are stationary for periods longer than 5 months and are connected to a shore supply of electricity even for short periods. A vessel anchored in a harbour for 6 months and supplied with power from the shore is an example. Also, electrical systems on ships regulated under the Canadian Coast Guard Ship Safety Branch are not covered by this CE Code, Part I.
A note indicates where mines are covered; they are not included or excluded in the foregoing Scope, since CSA Standard M421 states that it is to be used in conjunction with the CE Code, Part I.

Question #1 Cont'd.) CAN/CSA-C22.2 is the Canadian Electrical Code for Electrical Equipment

This Standard covers the following:

1. Scope and Object
1.1 Scope of this Standard
This Standard covers definitions, construction requirements, marking, and tests of a general nature that are applicable to all or several of the individual standards of Part II of this Code.
1.2 Scope of Individual Standards
Each individual Standard covers definitions, construction requirements, marking, and tests for a single class or a closely allied group of electrical equipment.
1.3 Object of Canadian Electrical Code, Part II
The object of Standards issued as portions of Part II of this Code is prevention of injury to persons and damage to property through proper design, good construction, and high quality workmanship. To this end, there are safety standards for the design and construction of electrical equipment for use throughout Canada in conformity with the Rules of Part I of this Code.
1.4 Object of this Standard
This Standard shall form a part of, and be read in conjunction with, all individual standards to which the requirements of this Standard may apply, except that, where an individual standard contains requirements that are at variance with those of this Standard, the requirements of the individual Standard shall take precedence.
1.5 Object of Individual Standards
1.5.1
Individual Standards contain only the special requirements applicable to the equipment that they cover.
1.5.2
Where an individual Standard makes reference to another Standard, requirements in the individual Standard at variance with those in the other Standard shall take precedence.

Question #1 Continued . . .

Peter, you can purchase the Part II Standards by contacting CSA in Toronto @ 178 Rexdale Blvd, Etobicoke, Ontario @ 416-747-4000.

Question #2

Peter, follow the manufactures spec sheet for the PT's as indicated in the previous post, which was taken from the CSA Standard.

Tony Moscioni
Electrical Inspector
Electrical Safety Authority
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