The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Industrail Control Panel bonding per 409.108
by sparkyinak
Yesterday at 03:17 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by aussie240
12/07/16 02:39 AM
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
12/06/16 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 9
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 8
Trumpy 6
Who's Online
0 registered (), 261 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#101030 - 02/02/07 06:28 PM Hydro Massage Bathtub (HMBT)
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
2002 NEC Article 680.74

When I read this it says that I need to bond metal piping systems and pumps etc., together with a #8 solid copper conductor. It goes on to say that a double insulated pump shall not be bonded. Does this negate all bonding for the HMBT?
_________________________
George Little

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#101031 - 02/02/07 08:44 PM Re: Hydro Massage Bathtub (HMBT)
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I got stung on this before here ;-)
If there is no electrical equipment to bond, I am not sure what you would bond the pipes to ... other than the normal 250.104 bonding.
After the death up in central Florida from energized steel framing (and the medicine cabinet) they are getting a little pickier about bonding in bathrooms. There really isn't much to bond tho, since we never see metal plumbing in 1&2 family.
I have thought about this since my l;ast spanking here and the only real rationale for a difference between a spa and a tub is the heater. That is a big difference. These are usually immersion heaters and there is a good opportunity to energize the water.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#101032 - 02/03/07 08:49 AM Re: Hydro Massage Bathtub (HMBT)
Alan Nadon Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 398
Loc: Elkhart, IN. USA
More of the sentence needs to be read. "Metal parts of listed equipment incorporating an approved system..."etc.
Field installed piping would not be part of the listed equipment in my opinion and would not be exempt from bonding.
The bigger problem is, to what would you bond the piping?
A grounded junction box ?
Or as gfretwell mentions just 250.104
Alan--
_________________________
Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.

Top
#101033 - 02/03/07 09:09 AM Re: Hydro Massage Bathtub (HMBT)
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Alan, I came up with the same conclusion. The '05 makes it a little clearer when it talks about the "all metal piping systems and all metal parts in contact with the circulating water shall be bonded together".

I'm convinced that even under the '02 NEC we still need to bond thing (Piping, metal parts, heaters) even if we have a double insulated pump that would not get bonded.

I'll be looking at the installation manual the next time I have an inspection and see what they say about any bonding when there is a double insulated pump.
_________________________
George Little

Top



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals