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#100497 - 11/22/06 06:46 PM Is this a TAP?
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
So I have an old main panel I don't want to touch - yet? Customer is cash poor with baby due... But will be changed in near future.

Anyway, would you call this a tap?

All conductors are #2 cu THWN/THHN for the service and feeder conductors- 100A main in backfed old style CH breaker, with 3 other 20A circuits, and a 60' feeder off the lugs to another (new) sub on (E) feeder.

420.2 describes a tap as such:

 Quote:

Tap Conductors. As used in this article, a tap conductor is defined as a conductor, other than a service conductor, that has overcurrent protection ahead of its point of supply that exceeds the value permitted for similar conductors that are protected as described elsewhere in 240.4.


italics mine....

If the service conductors are 100A, so is the panel MCOP, and the feeder is rated for >100A, not <, how would this be a "TAP"?

Inpector wants an OCPD for the feeder alone. Calling into play the TAP rules.... If the feeder conductors were rated for 80A, I could see that....

What say you?
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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#100498 - 11/22/06 07:19 PM Re: Is this a TAP?
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Connections to the line side of the service disconnect are not taps, they are still service conductors. All service conductor rules still apply
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Greg Fretwell

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#100499 - 11/22/06 07:39 PM Re: Is this a TAP?
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
This is on the load side of the back-fed Main... The OCP for the feeder is the Main.
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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#100500 - 11/23/06 07:54 AM Re: Is this a TAP?
dannynova Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 18
Loc: new york
240.21 explains taps and i dont see where you can have this tap 60' feet long unless its outside or in a high bay building. 240.21(B)(1) is not over 10' and 240.21.(B)2 is not over 25'. if im reading your post correctly the length of your tap is no good.

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#100501 - 11/23/06 08:35 AM Re: Is this a TAP?
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
It is not a tap.

A tap to the NEC is a conductor that has an overcurrent device ahead of it larger than the conductors rating.

 Quote:
240.2
Tap Conductors. As used in this article, a tap conductor is defined as a conductor, other than a service conductor, that has overcurrent protection ahead of its point of supply that exceeds the value permitted for similar conductors that are protected as described elsewhere in 240.4.


In this case all the conductors are rated over 100 amps and the over current protection is 100 amps.

All is safe and it is not a tap.
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#100502 - 11/23/06 09:51 AM Re: Is this a TAP?
dannynova Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 18
Loc: new york
yes the #2's are good for 100 amp. 240.21 requires ocpd in each ungrounded circuit conductor and it shall be located at the point where the conductors receive their supply except as specified in 240.21(A)-(G) which are the tap rules. so where is the ocpd for this feeder. the service main which is 100 amp is the service disconnect and ocpd and the ocpd for this feeder? if its not a tap then it needs a ocpd, not the service main disconnect and ocpd.

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#100503 - 11/23/06 10:24 AM Re: Is this a TAP?
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
 Quote:
so where is the ocpd for this feeder. the service main which is 100 amp is the service disconnect and ocpd and the ocpd for this feeder?


Yes, the 100 amp service disconnect / breaker is in fact a legal way of protecting the conductors.
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#100504 - 11/23/06 12:18 PM Re: Is this a TAP?
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Bob- If we assumeing copper conductors I agree but if these are aluminum feeder conductors, we have to protect them at 90a.
_________________________
George Little

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#100505 - 11/23/06 02:48 PM Re: Is this a TAP?
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
George Happy T-Day.

I agree with you, it happens that the Mark mentioned it was #2 cu THWN/THHN.

Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#100506 - 11/23/06 04:02 PM Re: Is this a TAP?
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Same to you Bob and your family. And thanks, I missed the "cu" - got to get those glasses cleaned.
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George Little

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