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#100248 - 11/06/06 05:31 AM can lights (fasteners)
Reel-Break Offline
Member

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 179
Loc: nc
OK We put in some can lighting and used some roofing nails to secure them to joist.They have the little tabs that knock in that help hold them in place a co-worker says these are sufficient to mount but I disagreed and also use screws or nails in this case I used roofing nails along with the metal tabs that nail into the wood.Now another guy says this is not ok because they are for roofing and can`t be used as can or fixture supports. Well does he have a point? Kinda figure he`s right but those cans are not falling down besides the halo brand use a similar nail?

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#100249 - 11/06/06 05:37 AM Re: can lights (fasteners)
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
 Quote:
They have the little tabs that knock in that help hold them in place a co-worker says these are sufficient to mount


I think that is a heck of a chance to take as if they let go it is a real hassle to get the trim in later.

 Quote:
I used roofing nails along with the metal tabs that nail into the wood.Now another guy says this is not ok because they are for roofing and can`t be used as can or fixture supports.


That is crazy, you may use whatever fastener you like, there is no such item as a listed nail for fixture supports.

I have used staples, nails, drywall screws and on most of our jobs Tek screws for metal studs.
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Construction & Maintenance Electrician
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#100250 - 11/06/06 06:08 AM Re: can lights (fasteners)
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
The little tabs are sufficient only to hold the thing in place while you use a real fastener.

You're nailing into the side of s beam. It is quite possible for an ordinary nail to pass all the way through- meaning there is length you don't use. The fixtures also have little weight, which means you don't need a whole lot of thickness either.

While I prefer to use screws - much easier if you need to re-position the can a bit- I see nothing wrong with using roofing nails.

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#100251 - 11/06/06 09:18 AM Re: can lights (fasteners)
Zapped Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 481
Loc: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
I use the tabs to hold the thing in place after aligning it to my marks. Then I use 1 1/4" drywall screws at all four points on drywall - techs on metal.

You can use nails if you like, but I do a lot of custom work where the client (unfortunately) sometimes wants to deviate from the plans and make changes. Nails become a nightmare at that point.

I would never recommend using just the holder-tabs to secure a fixture. They are completely insufficient and tend to pop right out when you slide the fixture into place for final adjustment.

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#100252 - 11/06/06 09:21 AM Re: can lights (fasteners)
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
I see a lot of electricians use Romex staples. Saves carrying nails and staples both in the pouch.
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#100253 - 11/06/06 11:39 AM Re: can lights (fasteners)
Zapped Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 481
Loc: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
I meant to say I use drywall screws on WOOD, and techs on metal. Sorry...

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#100254 - 11/06/06 01:09 PM Re: can lights (fasteners)
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
We used 3/4" pan head #10 sheet metal screws for most things like this. You can coax them into a metal stud through drywall and they are not coming out of wood. Most of our low voltage stuff was on 3/4 plywood. You do need a drill/driver for the metal studs but I assume most guys use them anyway. I used to buy them by the 5lb box at the fastener store and split them up with the guys.
They provine a lot better bearing surface than the bugle head deck/drywall screw.
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#100255 - 11/10/06 08:54 PM Re: can lights (fasteners)
DougW Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 1083
Loc: North Chicago, IL
I've always understood that the drive in straps (punched sections of the rails/plates) were for temporary use until the final location was determined; then it was intended to be secured by nails or screws. That's why there are multiple holes in those plates.

The only ones that don;t require additional fastening are the cans (Juno?) with the nail pre-attached at the factory.

IMHO I don't care for roofing nails. While they're handy (big head, short length), I had an issue with them once. I ran out of 1 1/4" DW screws, so I grabbed a few roofing nails from a can on the site.

I'll be damned if more than half of the heads didn't pop off before we were done at the site two weeks later.

As I went through re-fastening the boxes I'd mounted, I wound up swearing off roofing nails as a result.

That said, I don't think it's a Code violation per se, as the Code doesn't specify fastening means, it only specifies the distance the fastener can protrude into the interior of the box IIRC.

Of course, there's the inspector who failed a buddy for not using wood screws to mount the various boxes throughout the job (he used 1 1/4" DW's); the inspector fell back on "I'm the AHJ" when he couldn't produce an actual Code ref.

ETA - It seems the Halo lights use a stronger metal for their nails than the stuff used for roofing nails.

[This message has been edited by DougW (edited 11-10-2006).]

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#100256 - 11/15/06 05:22 PM Re: can lights (fasteners)
steve ancient apprentice Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 170
Loc: west springfield,mass
Roofing nails not a problem though i prefer to use drywall screws. Like the other if you have to reposition the can after mounting with nails its a heck of a time to reposition them. No problem at all if you want to use nails but I wouldnt.

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#100257 - 11/15/06 07:12 PM Re: can lights (fasteners)
Celtic Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 367
Loc: NJ
Another vote for screws...easier to mount one handed (I don't even bother with the built-in tab)...and easier to reposition/relocate at the customer's expense - I mean wish.
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