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#100083 - 10/16/06 08:05 AM 3 phase vs single
Reel-Break Offline
Member
Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 179
Loc: nc
When building a system when would you choose 3 ph over single or vice versa. We`re putting in some equipment into a textile plant where they have 3 phase 600 volt I`ve noticed some three phase 600 to 120/240 transformers and some single phase 600/120/240.We`re installing a small panel with mostly 120 volt loads for small equipment and some lighting. Thanks in advance.
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#100084 - 10/16/06 08:29 AM Re: 3 phase vs single
earlydean Offline
Member
Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 749
Loc: Griswold, CT, USA
Generally speaking, use 3 phase whenever it is available. For the cost of one additional conductor, you increase the capacity of the panel by a factor of 1.73(over single phase).

But, if you consider the cost of the minimum size allowable panel (often 100 amps) versus the cost of a 3 phase 100 amp panel, AND, if the total load to be used can be handled by the single phase 100 amp panel, then that is the most economical choice. (As is the case in residential services.)

In your case, the industrial load may not be sufficient to warrant the additional cost. The question you need to ask is: Who is paying the bills, and do we want to plan for any future loads?
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#100085 - 10/16/06 11:39 AM Re: 3 phase vs single
George Little Offline
Member
Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Unless you need the 3 phase for some equipment there is no point in having a "120/240/" 3 phase system. I say that because you will not be able to use the high leg for anything on 120v. or 240v. single phase. If you have a 208/120 3 phase you could use all three legs.

And since I'm being picky the term is 240/120v. for 3 phase and 120/240v. for single phase per IEEE dictionary.

Finger don't tipe rite.



[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 10-16-2006).]
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#100086 - 10/16/06 03:03 PM Re: 3 phase vs single
ShockMe77 Offline
Member
Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 823
Loc: Rahway, New Jersey
Quote:
the term is 240/120v. for 3 phase and 120/240v. for single phase per IEEE dictionary.


See that? I learn something new everyday here.

Thanks!
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#100087 - 10/16/06 03:16 PM Re: 3 phase vs single
JBD Offline
Member
Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 599
Loc: WI, USA
The basic, and informal, method is:
On single phase list the low voltage first, like: 120/240 and 120/208

On three phase list the high voltage first, like: 480/277, 240/120, and 208/120

A letter Y is usually added for wye systems - 208Y/120 or 480Y/277.
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#100088 - 10/21/06 02:58 AM Re: 3 phase vs single
pauluk Offline
Member
Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
Quote:
the term is 240/120v. for 3 phase and 120/240v. for single phase per IEEE dictionary.


Any idea how far back this convention goes?
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#100089 - 10/21/06 04:38 AM Re: 3 phase vs single
Eddy Current Offline
Member
Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 112
Loc: Ontario,Canada
240/120 3 phase? I always thought you can only get 208/120 from 3 phase?
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#100090 - 10/21/06 05:53 AM Re: 3 phase vs single
Roger Offline
Member
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 1779
Loc: N.C.
Eddy, the 240/120 3 phase is a Delta Configuration of windings with one winding center tapped for the grounded conductor whereas the Wye configuration is tapped at the end of three windings.

This is why only two legs/phases of the Delta will give you 120 and all three phases of the Wye will give you 120.

Scott has some good information and drawings of these transformer configurations in the Technical area.

Roger
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#100091 - 11/01/06 02:41 PM Re: 3 phase vs single
EASports Offline
Junior Member
Registered: 10/31/06
Posts: 4
Loc: Hutchinson, KS
"Unless you need the 3 phase for some equipment there is no point in having a "120/240/" 3 phase system. I say that because you will not be able to use the high leg for anything on 120v. or 240v. single phase."

This is partly true. With a high leg delta system you have 240V between any two phases, so you could use the high leg and one other to run a 240V single phase appliance (if the breaker is rated to handle the high leg voltage).

[This message has been edited by EASports (edited 11-01-2006).]
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#100092 - 11/01/06 03:06 PM Re: 3 phase vs single
George Little Offline
Member
Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
EASports- Be careful-
Quote:
This is partly true. With a high leg delta system you have 240V between any two phases, so you could use the high leg and one other to run a 240V single phase appliance.

You need to look at 240.85, especially the latter part of the text. Unless that breaker you are referring to has a straight 240v. rating, you would not be able to use it on a single phase 240v. circuit using the high leg. Some breakers have a slash rating- 120/240 and they could not be used on the high leg of a 3Ø 240/120v panel if they are accross the high leg. Common violation.

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 11-01-2006).]
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