The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Industrail Control Panel bonding per 409.108
by sparkyinak
Today at 03:17 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by aussie240
Yesterday at 02:39 AM
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
12/06/16 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 9
sparkyinak 8
Texas_Ranger 8
Trumpy 6
Who's Online
0 registered (), 248 Guests and 6 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#100057 - 10/09/06 05:53 AM Sign Circuit
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Question of the day- Can you install outlets on a sign circuit that are not associated with the sign? Man wants to install a parking lot light on a sign circuit and it won't overload the circuit. What say you?
_________________________
George Little

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#100058 - 10/09/06 07:08 AM Re: Sign Circuit
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Not all sign circuits are created alike.

AFAIK, only the window display circuit is required to be "dedicated." The sign on the front of the building, or out at the street, need not be on a dedicated circuit.

Now, looking at the opposite situation.... I could see 'understanding' the addition of such signs to the show window circuit- but lot lights are clearly not allowed.

Top
#100059 - 10/09/06 10:04 AM Re: Sign Circuit
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Most parking lot signs I see have a 120v receptacle built into the base. (these days, with a broken bubble cover over them)
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#100060 - 10/09/06 05:12 PM Re: Sign Circuit
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
What about 600.5(A)? Does it not say no other load? Or am I getting creative? What about 220.3(B)(6)?
_________________________
George Little

Top
#100061 - 10/09/06 06:59 PM Re: Sign Circuit
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I looked at some signs today. Some of those "receptacles" I talked about are actually switches (the disconnect) when I looked at them closely. I also saw receptacles tho. The ones in use were blowing up one of those temporary inflated signs. (the balloon looking thing and the sock man that keeps flipping in the air).
Perhaps that is still considered a sign outlet and that circuit has only "sign" loads?
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#100062 - 10/10/06 03:54 AM Re: Sign Circuit
jwhite Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 67
Loc: Trenton, NC, USA
Those code sections above seem to be talking about the sign on the front of the building.

What about a sign in the parking lot. Could one add a parking lot light on the same circuit on top of the sign?

It reads to me like this is ok, but the circuit would be limited to 20 amps.

Top
#100063 - 10/10/06 11:11 AM Re: Sign Circuit
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
The signs I am talking about are in the parking lot, usually on a pole or masonry pedestal. I didn't get to look at the wiring
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#100064 - 10/14/06 07:26 AM Re: Sign Circuit
stlchuck Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 5
Loc: St. Louis Mo.
The entry sign cicuit as req. by 600.5(A) is to be a dedicated circuit, no other loads, but there are no requirements that a pole sign be dedicated, only that the circuit(s) be no larger than 20 amp, 600.5(B)(1).If the sign is exclusively neon it is limited to 30 amp 600.5.(B)(2)

Chuck

Top
#100065 - 10/16/06 04:53 PM Re: Sign Circuit
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
George:
I'm puzzled. Are you talking about a 'pylon' type sign? Or a sign of some other configuration out 'in the lot'?

IMHO, I see no reason why one could not have a light on with the sign circuitry, as long as it doesn't overload the circuits.

We have some signage that is tapped of of PL lighting (277V sign & PL Ltg); a 'few' floodlights mounted on a sign structure; albeit another circuit or two. And, yes, in a pinch, circuit capacity permitting, a pole light tapped from the "close" signage.

A few strip malls have a few wallpacks/floods that are powered from the canopy sign feed. (OK, no permit & hence no insp.)

John
_________________________
John

Top
#100066 - 10/17/06 10:20 AM Re: Sign Circuit
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
This is just a sign not attached to the building and the contractor want's to extend the circuit for some site lighting. I submitted this question to Charlie Trout and will be interested in his response.
_________________________
George Little

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals