Live Chat

Join in a Live Electrical Chat!
Electrical Chat
Schedule:  9pm EST
Wed - Business Chat
Friday - General Chat

>> Login
 

  Sorry, your browser is not Java enabled, please visit our java support pages

in Chatroom
Shout Box

New in the Gallery:
Inside a Photocontrol
X-Proof Seals
Overhead Underground Service
Hoist Pendant Switch
Who's Online
5 registered (BRAINonGRUOND, brnoe, ComputerWizKid, Sandro, Wolfgang), 8 Guests and 6 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#176882 - 04/15/08 07:13 AM Electrical installation for outdoor hot-tub
Ann Brush Offline
Member
Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 113
Loc: Ohia
A sparky here at work moonlights doing additional small time resi work. He asked me (I don't know why he picked me, I am just an EE) what the code requirements were for the installation of an outdoor hot-tub. I know there have been posts on this topic (disconnect locations, GFCI requirements etc), please could some of you point them out to me with the relevant code sections if you have them handy.
Top
Featured Tools
#176883 - 04/15/08 07:23 AM Re: Electrical installation for outdoor hot-tub [Re: Ann Brush]
renosteinke Moderator Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 3159
Loc: Reno Nv USA
Article 680, which covers pools, has a 'spa and hot tub' section that modifies the pool rules.

It's a good idea that he also check with the local town, as local interpretations - especially regarding whether the ground wire need be insulated - vary. It's possible the town will want an insulated ground wire all the way back to the main panel ... which rules out NMC as a wiring method.

If there's a gazebo over the thing, a ground rod, in addition to the ground wire, is also a good idea. Again, this is a matter of some discussion.

Wires need to be buried deep - preferably 2 ft down. Getting into design issues, I prefer pipe. These steps protect against the gardener damaging them when working on the lawn sprinklers.

Finally, there is the matter of disconnect location. Putting it in the enclosed area that also hides the air conditioner is a common error. An "emergency stop" is not required for residential tubs.
Top
#176890 - 04/15/08 09:15 AM Re: Electrical installation for outdoor hot-tub [Re: renosteinke]
gfretwell Offline
Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 4127
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
680.21(A) pretty much puts you in conduit. You also need GFCI protection. The typical spa setup is a 50a branch circuit with a GFCI breaker and a disconnect box where the spa wires in. Some packaged spas also include a built in disconnect or even GFCI protection so it is good to know what you have before you start. I am not sure how you bond a preexisting concrete deck but by my reading it is still required. You also need to bond all metal within 5' with #8 solid (window frames, screen enclosures, rails, fences and ladders). Most AHJs also want tempered glass in windows near the tub.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell
Top
#176891 - 04/15/08 09:21 AM Re: Electrical installation for outdoor hot-tub [Re: gfretwell]
renosteinke Moderator Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 3159
Loc: Reno Nv USA
Thank you, Greg, for highlighting some common variations.

I've seen countless variations ... as well as quite a bit of variety in the tubs themselves. The last one I did came with its' own "slab," made of something resembling styrofoam, but looking like cement!

All more reasons to have a chat with the AHJ before work starts ....
Top
#176894 - 04/15/08 01:56 PM Re: Electrical installation for outdoor hot-tub [Re: renosteinke]
gfretwell Offline
Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 4127
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I suppose that slab is the way around 680.26(C) (3' paved surface bonding.)
Prior to 2005 the bonding of the deck under a spa was not really looked at. I know I did mine way back in 1976 but I was the one who was going to be using it
_________________________
Greg Fretwell
Top
#176913 - 04/16/08 01:41 AM Re: Electrical installation for outdoor hot-tub [Re: renosteinke]
macmikeman Offline
Member
Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 703
Loc: Honolulu, Hawaii
 Originally Posted By: renosteinke


I've seen countless variations ... as well as quite a bit of variety in the tubs themselves. The last one I did came with its' own "slab," made of something resembling styrofoam, but looking like cement!


Probably made from AAC - autoclaved airated concrete. It is getting more prevalant in building and building materials. Its lightweight and yet fairly sturdy.
Top
#176919 - 04/16/08 06:04 AM Re: Electrical installation for outdoor hot-tub [Re: macmikeman]
harold endean Offline
Member
Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 1065
Loc: Boonton, NJ
Greg,

Someone mentioned disconnects, and emergency disconnect is not required for resi spas, but a disconnect for the motors is still required to be within 50 feet and within eyesight of the motors, if it is not part of the spa package. As for bonding concrete on existing patios around here some EC's are installing rubber mats around the tubs or wooden decks, this way you are insulated from the concrete.
Top
#176930 - 04/16/08 10:16 AM Re: Electrical installation for outdoor hot-tub [Re: harold endean]
gfretwell Offline
Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 4127
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I suppose all these rubber mats and plastic decks are fine ... until they get wet.

The only way to eliminate voltage gradients is with bonding.
That is why we have 680.26 in the first place
_________________________
Greg Fretwell
Top
#176931 - 04/16/08 10:18 AM Re: Electrical installation for outdoor hot-tub [Re: macmikeman]
gfretwell Offline
Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 4127
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Mike is that like the Ytong concrete? In any case I would still like to see them put a copper grid in it and a bonding lug.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell
Top
#176975 - 04/17/08 09:03 PM Re: Electrical installation for outdoor hot-tub [Re: gfretwell]
George Little Offline
Member
Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1185
Loc: Michigan USA
Greg- I wonder if a grid is even required around an out door spa if it is above ground. I assume this is the type of spa we are talking about. Maybe it could be a code proposal for the 2011 code? Or maybe an exception?? 680.42 and reference to B kinda tells us what to do with bonding an outdoor spa.


Edited by George Little (04/17/08 09:05 PM)
_________________________
George Little
Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Featured:

2008 NEC & Related Books, Tabs, CD-ROMs & Exam Prep Study Guides
2008 NEC & Related Books, Tabs, CD-ROMs & Exam Prep Study Guides


Tools for Electricians
Tools for Electricians

 * * * * * * * * Licensing Info and Lookup
Licensing Info
& Lookup

 

Recent Posts
Facial hair?
by Electricmanscott
Today at 05:32 AM
Your Call Taker, The Business Bottleneck
by Electricmanscott
Today at 05:27 AM
How do I make UK appliances run in the US
by Trumpy
Today at 03:09 AM
Tamper resistant: 406.11
by gfretwell
Yesterday at 07:49 PM
Surge outlet
by pdh
Yesterday at 06:44 PM
Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 84
renosteinke 43
Trumpy 35
Webmaster 30
HotLine1 25
November
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30

ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals