This is exactly how you don't plug in a UK or Irish laptop while visiting Germany!

Spotted it on the web

[This message has been edited by djk (edited 08-21-2005).]

{ Edited to rescale image and transfer to ECN server - Paul }



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 08-31-2005).]

You're right - they got the polarity wrong !!

Thats ok, the receptacles don't have any L/ N markings either, (in France anyway), so it's got a 50-50 chance! Whatever happened to the two-matchsticks technique?
In 1990 I came to France with a mate who was wanting to buy a house. We made the mistake of bringing a Brit electrician with us to 'evaluate the electrics'. We rented a little house for a week, it was the middle of a bad winter and he literally took the house electrics apart to "see how they do it over here", jerry-rigging stuff all over with matches in his 'Quest for the Truth' and leaving us blacked out and with no lights, cooker or heating for the weekend after shagging the company fuse! Ah! Happy days! Red wine, good food, frostbite.
Alan.
Bit late for a ps but; As we had no electricity, we decided to eat out on the Sun. evening. On the way out of the village in the morning, on a house hunting expedition, we saw a very squashed, very dead chicken on the road outside the café, and joked it'd be cooked for dinner that night. When the proprietaire dished up poulet that night, he stood aghast as we three Anglais collapsed on the floor in fits of laughter!

[This message has been edited by Alan Belson (edited 08-24-2005).]

Hey!,
What's this?.
They haven't trimmed off the excess wire on the Neutral conductor.
Shame on them.
Someone could get a shock off of them stray strands.

{Message edited to correct spelling error}

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 08-24-2005).]

I hope whoever did this derated the cord for bundling too!

I just read that the BS1363 standard makes for one of the safest designed plugs in the world, but I guess that does not mean "foolproof."

<shudders at the picture>

As far as I know it is a different plug, cause Germany uses 220 V, not 110.

Actually BS1363 is 240V

And with EC harmonisation, 230V nominalfor both, not to mention the wide tolerance laptop PSUs often have.

Actually, BS1363, Schuko, French plugs etc are all rated for 250V.

Power's nominally 230V thorughout Europe thesedays.

As for BS1363 .... I donno I wouldn't particuarly rate it as all that safe it's got a lot of problems and isn't a fundementally safe design.

A schuko socket is recessed and the plug/socket system is designed to prevent you from getting your fingers anywhere near the live pins on the way in (on the 10/16A plugs). This means that the socket itself can be designed to make contact with a larger surface area of the pins. This gives you good contact and no "hot spots".

BS1363 on the otherhand has no recessed sockets so, the pins have to be sheathed to prevent shocks. The socket also only really makes contact with the tips of the pins. If the socket's worn / loose you can end up with pretty seriously hot pins.

Also, when used with ring circuits, the BS1363 system isn't necessarily all that safe as pauluk and others have discussed on this forum many times before.

And, many BS1363 plugs have the fuse holders rivited to the live pin. This riviting isn't always perfect, particularly on some cheap imports, and can result in hot plugs.

And, the fuse holder itself is prone to loosening up on older plugs if the fuse has been changed several times. This too can result in very hot plugs.

Overall, I would argue that schuko (the proper earthed variety of sockets) is a fundementally far superior design and doesn't rely on added-on safety features like its British counterpart.

Likewise in Australia plugs, sockets and switches are all rated at 250V. In many places the mains is around 250V or a bit over.
The bureaucrats decided a couple of years ago that we would join Europe and have 230V as well. This was only just on paper (why bother?) and as I've noticed of late, the rating labels on things like water heater elements and fluro light ballasts. Fortunately our mains voltage was never actually changed and remains at 240-250v. What a dumb idea that would have been to go and drop the voltage in the name of political correctness.

[This message has been edited by aussie240 (edited 08-31-2005).]

@ Aussie240
It wasn't in the name of political correctness. It was someone who figured that they would test what voltages that the appliances were actually designed for. Off they went, and the result was pretty clear: Foreign manufacturers made the good for 220-240V i.e. around 230V and labled them 240V for Australia. 240V isn't a problem, but above 250V it becomes one. Thus, some bright spark came up with the idea of changing the nominal voltage. Presumably this will be little different than in the UK: Keep 240V but fix the systems that overshoot too badly.

If you work out the permitted upper limit under the old standard (240V +/-6%) vs. the new standard (230V +10%/-6%), there's not much difference:

240V + 6% = 254.4 volts
230V +10% = 253.0 volts.

It was entirely a political exercise in juggling the figures here though, which has left us with that weird assymetric tolerance specification. (It's rumored that eventually this will be changed to 230V +/-10%).

The 250V rating on BS1363 is because it was introduced long before the standardization at 240V took place, and 250V was the highest nominal voltage then in use.

I'd agree with Dave's criticisms of BS1363. The poor contact on some fuse clips does lead to overheating. I won't use one of the cheap brand plugs on an appliance which draws a substantial current. They're fine for radios, tablelamps, etc. but when it comes to a kettle, electric heater, washing machine or something similar I'll stick to MK or some other higher-quality brand.

There's one other danger with BS1363 as anyone from the U.K. and Ireland will tell you. The plugs are darned unforgiving when you step on the upturned pins while fumbling your way out of the bedroom in semi-darkness! Ouch!




[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 08-31-2005).]

yeah they have a tendency to land with their pins sticking straight up and if you stand on them hard enough they'll quite litterally puncture your foot!

Yup... nearly had that in the living room. Stopped just with my toe in front of the plug.
Story: My brother had spent a week in Exeter. Me being a good brother I had taken a BS1363 plug with a 13A fuse, a pice of 3x1,5mm2 cord and a Schuko trailing socket, making up an adaptor that was most likely a lot safer than most on the market. When he came back he dumped the contents of the suitcase on the living room floor...

I'd say almost certainly. Most of the adapters are just junk.

It took me a while before I noticed what was wrong....

....the live and neutral are connected to the wrong pins.

Definitely. Mostly unfused, flimsy, almost never grounded (and an ungrounded adaptor allowing for contour plugs turns quite easily into one for Schuko plugs if it's used with some more force... so why not build something decent when you already have the components in your junk box? Ok, the chinese BS1363 plug was probably a bit questionable... but it survived the hairdryer without any signs of overheating. Being old of course they didn't have sleeved pins, but I guess a lot of those are still around.

French plugs are specially designed to collapse into a pankake of junk if trodden on, (or, in fact, used at all.) The plastic was carefully chosen after examining the toys that fell out of Corn Flakes packets, the pins are modelled on hair grips, while the terminal screws were sourced from spectacle-hinge suppliers. The 'cord grips' (sic) are often a plastic screw you graunch into the cable insulation, and we even have one that opens up like an oyster for wiring. That can be exciting if it suddenly comes undone! It's common here to pull the plug on something and bring with it the receptacle, the box, a tangle of wires and choc-blocks and with a large chunk of plasterboard attached.
Please don't criticise our lovely UK plugs just because they are built strong enough to brain a rhino!

Alan

LOL!

Mind you, anyone who thinks BS1363 is hefty should look at the old 15A version of BS546.

C'mon now, 15 amps? Those pins look like they were designed to carry about 100 amps!

(Tell you what though -- The rounded ends of those pins don't dig it your feet as badly as BS1363.)

Another advantage to building a short adapter lead is that you're likely to be putting much less strain on the outlets. The travel adapters sometimes put me in mind of those "Christmas tree" adapter mazes where somebody has about six plugs hanging on adapters in one socket.


It's O.K. There's a 50/50 chance that the plug in the Shucko socket has corrected the polarity error!

Welcome to ECN!

If you're talking about LeGrand, yeah....they're junk.

I had one where I pushed it into the socket and one of the pins collapsed right into the plastic shell.

Had that too... even with a pretty heavy duty looking rubber plug! Don't remember any brand though, and it was Schuko.

Alan, your humor is incredible! I'm still trying to get up from rolling on the floor... thanks a lot!

Well, that's not too uncommon with Schuko either... at least where cheap boxes and receptacles were used. The clamps don't tend to hold up too well, especially if the box isn't plastered in securely and widens under pressure. But well... we're halfways in the balcans here... I'm used to it! Just push it back into the wall again...

Ragnar said:


Well the one that "went cripple" on me, was one of Legrand's parallel flat-pin American variety (made in Mexico).....maybe I was unlucky?

First time I had ever seen that happen!

It's not like we're known for the sturdiest plugs in the world.

Paul,
Believe me Paul, you haven't lived until you've stood on the pins of a side-entry Aus/NZ plug with a bare foot, the earth pin being longer than the Phase and Neutral pins, makes it hurt all that much more.

There's something else... all Schuko outlets I've used so far look a lot more substantial and take up more space in the box than anything else I've ever wired, that is French, Italian, Swiss, BS1363. Judging by the pictures I've seen NEMA sockets seem to come close to Schuko.
Of course some cheap Schuko outlets are pretty flimsy too, but it's just weird only to have a cover plate with some flimsy looking guts permanently fastened to it... Even the equally deep recessed French outlets take up much less space inside the box (I installed a few Czech receptacles since we have a house very close to the border).

Dave,
It seems that this guy has been to Aussie as well:

... and people have the cheek to laugh at and/or send ill-worded emails re my trusty travel adapter !

M.

p.s. maybe it's because I've revealed there is 240V available in most US hotels rooms?

If I was travelling to the US, rather than take a step up transformer, I'd make an adaptor consisting of an Australian extension cord socket fitted with two long wires; each connecting to the live pin of a US plug (use polarised or 3 pin plugs). The idea is that you insert the two US plugs into GPO's around the room in a random manner until you found two on separate phases; ie. 240V. If you needed an earth then one of the plugs would need to be 3 pin and the relevant connection made to the 240v socket.
I wouldn't recommend this for non technical users....if an appliance was plugged into this adaptor and turned on before with only one 120V plug inserted, then a shock could be received by touching the other, non inserted plug.

[This message has been edited by aussie240 (edited 10-20-2005).]

Aussie, you're much better off (and safer) with a transformer.

There are no guarantees that you will have two separate phases in the same room where you're staying.

With any luck, you could be stuck in a room with only one available wall socket. Then what do you do?

Try the light sockets next

Or ask to be moved to a room which has 240V window air.

Aussie240 wrote:

"The idea is that you insert the two US plugs into GPO's around the room in a random manner until you found two on separate phases; ie. 240V."

Aussie, most US hotel rooms (at least in larger hotels) are derived from a 208/120 Y. If you try this and are actually able to get two phases, you will probably not end up with 240V.

Likewise with Marc's idea of using a NEMA 6-15 plug. These are often used on 208V circuits. I wouldn't try either of these options without first checking the voltage with a meter.

208 vs. 230!? Not a problem. There are places in the UK that suffer voltage drops below 200, and in Ireland that is quite common and everything runs just fine. Sure, don't try to run big motors designed for 230 on this - but all I am interested in is getting my shaver to get rid of the fuzz on me face! (as well as the other kit that needs simple charging), the slight depression in voltage is a shed-load better than trying to get things to run at just over half!

M.

Good point. I suppose a 120/240V 3-wire service is more likely to be found in those small "Mom & Pop" motels with just a few rooms.

With switched-mode power supplies being common for so much modern portable equipment, 208V would work just as well though.


I've seen reports saying that in some parts of Spain at peak demand times the voltage can drop as low as 180V.



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 11-06-2005).]

Rural Italy, distant 220V line... measured voltage under load around 170. The Sony cassette player first played slow and then quit working until the voltage got up again...

In Ireland you'll DEFINITELY see lower voltages than the UK. The PoCo would be aiming for 220-230V... It rarely is over 230V. Anywhere I've measured is between 190something and 228V.

(Everything's specified 220/380V)

In rural areas with long lines you can get the odd weird dip, particularly if someone's invested in a new milking machine down the road!!

Said house in Italy was at the end of an ancient 220V line (was there in 1991 and 1992) far away from the transformer. The feeder was just two very thin looking wires on warped and weathered wooden poles...
In that area (Arezzo, Tuscany) it's not too uncommon to find houses entirely fitted with German sockets because there are many Austrian and German expats.