Hi all,

Have browsed this and other websites looking for relevant info, (but had little success).

So have "wandered" into this forum, hoping some of you "die-hards" might be able to shed some light on this for me.

Can anyone provide me with any legal reason why a trailing distribution block, fitted with Schuko sockets would NOT be legal in UK, as long as it met with the appropriate CE regs (and was already on sale and in legal use in other EEA countries).

Have asked various bodies (Trading standards, BSI, IEE) but to no avail.

Is there an over-riding UK regulation that prohibits such CE-approved items?

(links to relevant websites/documents most acceptable).

thanx in advance,

Tim

In a private home you can use what you like, for a business it's a different matter (HSE, public liability, etc). You should really be asking your insurers if they are happy for you to use non uk approved electrical equipment, though personally I wouldn't bother, just make sure it's safe.

Hi Tim and welcome to the group!
It's always good to have new folk here.
I would have to agree with Gideon in his post.
However, we are after all talking about one form of a connector here, sure I realise that the Schuko can be inserted either way around, but should that preclude it's use?.
The issue I'd be more worried about is over-voltage from as I believe that the Schuko is designed for 220VAC appliances, however most appliances these days have a multi-voltage capability.
I'd be interested in what the other guys have to say about this.

Schuko is rated 250V, 10A DC, 16A AC, so voltage shouldn't be an issue at all.

Thanks for that Ragnar,
I was just wondering about the voltage compatibility.

Hi Tim, welcome to the forum.

As Gideon said, as far as using equipment in your own home is concerned there are no laws at all and you can use any connectors you like (I have a fair amount of 120V equipment running on American plugs, for example).

There is a law relating to the supply of portable appliances:

The Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1994

All this really specifies though is that appliances offered for sale in the U.K. must now be fitted with a BS1363 plug (with a few exceptions). There's nothing to say you can't fit any plug you like to that device once you've bought it.

For commercial settings, I'm not sure what the Health & Safety at Work Acts have to say on the matter. As most things these days say that any approved standard of another EU country has to be considered as an acceptable alternative to a British Standard though, I wouldn't have thought it would be a problem.

Maybe one of our members from the commercial side could comment more on this.

Don't forget that "officially" we're all 230V nominal now anyway.

Hi Guys,

Thanks to the well-wishers and for the replies received so far.

FYI, the reason for my OP is as follows:

We distribute a range of hi-fi, home cinema and power cables from a Swedish company called "Jenving" - the cables themeselves are branded "Supra" and over the last 25+ years they have built up a strong reputation.

(Please no arguments about whether cables make a difference !!)

However, they have designed a 6 way mains distribution block (aka "trailing sockets") fitted with Schuko sockets.

Unfortunately, it's too expensive to re-tool in order to produce a UK-socketed version (esp. as the UK market is relatively small, compared to EC market for Schuko version).

So, it was really a question of the legal side as to whether selling a mains block fitted with Schuko sockets in a country that normally uses UK 13A shuttered sockets - obviously we'd also need to be able to supply the Schuko-terminated cables (that go between the mains block and the equipment itself) as well as a UK-to-IEC cable to power up the block from the wall socket.

Fortunately, the manufacturer is changing the Schuko sockets to shuttered types, so as to increase the safety of the item (and preventing children with knitting needles from electrocuting themselves !!), but other than that, I was looking for any other concerns or issues that might prevent me from making these available.

Any further info/opinions would be very useful.

regards,

Tim

I don't think it's a problem. You can use all sorts of non-standard connectors ... look at the various connectors that are available... e.g. masterplug or micromark do a little unit that has tiny 3 pin plugs that don't conform to any particular standard.

If it's CE approved and it's a component I'd assume it's OK.

It's just as safe, if not safer, than using IEC connectors.

As long as the plug on the end of the cabinate that goes into the wall is a BS1363 it should be OK.

BS1363 plugs or a schuko/europlug with a converter that can only be removed with a tool is required in Ireland on any device that's sold. There's no mention of any ban on using Schuko sockets as a coupler / connector.

Also, I've seen schuko plugs and cable couplers used on garden equipment and other such devices here.

i.e. a short cable with a moulded Contour (non-grounded schuko-type plug) on the lawnmower and a schuko trailing socket as the connector.

It's just as effective and a lot more robust than the BS equivilant coupler.

RS Components sell Schuko distribution blocks made by tyco Bowthorpe EMP:
http://rswww.com/cgi-bin/bv/rswww/subRangeAction.do?catoid=-1600761947&cacheID=ukie

They have a Schuko plug though, anyone found one with a BS1363 plug?

Some bad news then...

Plugs and sockets outlets for domestic use are explicitly excempt from common European rules. (See the "Low voltage directive", 73/23/EEC, ANNEX II Equipment and phenomena outside the scope of the directive)

In the latest revision work, only Italy and Portugal suggested including plugs and socket outlets in the LVD so for the forseeable future, the situation will remain unchanged. Plugs and socket outlets for domestic use cannot be CE marked.

This means each and every country in Europe can forbid foreign system of plugs and socket outlets.

What can work in your favour in case someone bring it to court is that the European plugs are all built and tested to the same international standard. With differences for the different types of plugs, of course. (The situation is even more bisarre if you look deeper into it.)

One suggestion is that you manufacturer looks into making a IEC 320 version of the mains block. A number of manufacturers make such. Shuttered versions are available. (I think Shurter have them) In addition, these can be dual listed for North American and European market.

("Supra" is the company that makes cables with "conductive insulation"... Need I say HiFi?)

Assuming that there is no overriding EU rule then, it would appear that the Plug & Sockets Regs. 1994 would be the only ones which might conceivably apply.

I'm no lawyer, and the act seems to be full of the usual legal mumbo-jumbo and exceptions to exceptions which makes it very hard to follow, but this part caught my eye:


Obviously parts (a), (b), and (d) are satisfied, which just leaves (c).

Note the recurrence of the phrase "is designed to be connected to a socket conforming to BS 1363 by means of that flexible cable or cord," or words to that effect.

I would argue that if the individual pieces of equipment are intended to be connected via the Shucko distribution block, then each individual cord is clearly not intended or designed for a BS1363 socket.

As far as selling the actual distribution board is concerned, you can put whatever sockets on it you like. You could easily make this "designed for connection to a BS1363 socket" by simply cutting off the original Shucko plug and fitting a BS1363 type instead.

Distribution boards for various types of foreign sockets are already on sale widely. I can't see that there's anything to stop you. legally.

(In practice, I doubt anything much would happen even if that 1994 law did apply. )

Hi all,

Thanks for your various posts.

I've found a picture of the item in question just for curiousity's sake:



so hopefully, interpretations of the various UK reg's could be better applied.

I've taken a look at various things now and am still not 100% clear on this.

But will keep on it.

regards,

Tim


[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 07-19-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 07-21-2005).]

Bump,
Just thought I'd throw a reply in here seems the picture has been added.
Sorry it's taken me so long to add it Tim, I've got a bad dose of the flu at the moment.

Ah.... So the distribution block has an IEC connector for the supply input anyway.

I don't see any problem at all with this, so long as you supply a BS1363-to-IEC lead to connect power to this block.