I'm in the US, but I need to install a German ceiling (pendant) light made by Oligo . This is for a residential application. I'm curious to know how such lights are typically installed in Germany.

In the US, residential ceiling lights are typically mounted to a standard ceiling box. These come in metal or plastic and are usually either round or octagonal. Here's a couple of examples:

<IMG SRC=\"http://www.smugmug.com/photos/15183708-S.jpg\"> <IMG SRC=\"http://www.smugmug.com/photos/15183709-S.jpg\">

Here's a metal octagon box installed (the yucky brown ring is a result of cigarette smoke):

<IMG SRC=\"http://www.smugmug.com/photos/15181861-S.jpg\">

These boxes are typically 75 or 100 mm wide and provide two threaded holes either 89 or 70 mm apart. Lighting fixtures typically screw directly to these holes and have a cover to hide the box.

The German fixture I have looks like this:

<IMG SRC=\"http://www.smugmug.com/photos/15181862-S.jpg\"> <IMG SRC=\"http://www.smugmug.com/photos/15181860-S.jpg\">

It has a bracket with holes spaced 45 mm apart that looks like it's intended to be surface-mounted to the ceiling. The light then hangs from the bracket via two screws on the side. The cylindrical cover has a diameter of 70 mm and is about 23 mm deep, providing a volume of about 88 cm³.

I can make an adapter plate without too much trouble to fit this light to a US ceiling box, but I'm curious to know how this would be installed in Germany. Are there ceiling boxes over there, or does the wire just come through a small hole in the ceiling? Would the connections be done inside the cover on the light (doesn't seem like there's much room for that), or would they be done inside the ceiling?

Thanks!
Steve

Hi there Steve,
Welcome to ECN!.
By the looks of the bracket on your German light fitting, there is no need for a box above the fitting.
That bracket, screws directly to a timber joist, using wood screws and then the top is attached by the set screws on each side.
Personally I'd use at least 3 screws and make sure that they go into substantial timber in the ceiling.

Yes the connections are made in the top part of the fitting, as un-believable as that sounds.
What voltage is this fitting?.
Hope that this is of some help.

Mike :}



[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 02-04-2005).]

They're usually not boxed here in Ireland either... I think they should move towards a standard plug-in fitting though!

Hi Dave,
Now there is a flash idea that I could agree with!.
It would make the fitting of sometimes heavy light fittings a lot easier and faster and also removing them for repairs/cleaning.

Hi SWB, and welcome to the forum.

That type of fixture is also quite common in Britain now as well. The connections would typically be made inside the fixture housing using "choc blocks," like these:




Well, you can get plug-in connectors for simple pendanta and for fancier hanging fixtures:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ASPCR2000.html
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LDMC11A.html

Sparkys nightmare connecting light fittings, most of the fittings end up as a deviation to BS 7671 when connected up. Paul the Mystro accessory in your link is the best solution but can be a fiddle to addapt. Have to admit the US solution appears best with a good strong metal box with tapped holes. Why lighting manufacturers can not standardise a fixing plate I will never understand.

The Swedish solution is - as I think a lot of you here know by now - either a round box with a hook and a small socket outlet or simply a hook and a small trailing socket. (The box will support a maximum of 15 kg / 33 lbs.) This would have worked well if the manufacturers of lights didn't insist on making the hooks and covers in only two versions: bad and worse.

Thanks, everyone! I've been lurking around here for awhile, and I've found the non-US forum particularly interesting and enlightening. Somebody should write a book comparing and detailing the electrical systems in use throughout the world.
230 V, which probably explains the small wiring space – less current and smaller, easier-to-manage wires than our 120 V requires.
Yep, it even came with one of those, as well as a couple of 230-V QT-DE 11/12 (78 mm) bulbs. If anybody wants the bulbs, you're welcome to them.

Steve

Are the bulbs regular incandescents that screw in?

If they use the "French Candelabra" (a size between Intermediate and Candelabra bases), there is a reducer available that just screws onto the bulbs and enables regular candelabra/night light bulbs to be used with these European sockets.

They're 78-mm, double-ended, T3 halogen bulbs:



[This message has been edited by SWB (edited 02-03-2005).]

You could always buy a stock of 230V bulbs and hook it up to a US 220-240V supply with 2 Hots.. it should be fine

By the way Steve,
Just a clarification on the mounting of your light fitting.
I'd be installing the box in behind the base of the fitting as per your local Codes.
Installing a foreign fitting does in no way negate your need to comply with any laws and so forth for your particular area.

It looks like that mounting bar might even bolt quite nicely into the box anyway! It has slots that allow you to adjust the position of the screws horizontally along the bar.
Just fit it diagnolly across the box and the fitting's base will cover the entire thing!

Failing that I guess you'll have to make a plate.


This is the current French system: (rated 6A 230V 50Hz)
(flush fitted box with socket)


With mouting hook:




the plug fits almost flat into the recessed socket. so can fit comfortably behind any fitting.

These are obligatory since October 1st, 2001 in all new houses/apartments in France.
Under NF C 15_100

Cenelec should pick a system and force harmonisation across europe though as then we could require light manufacturers to provide compatable fittings!
Where a plug/socket system wasn't fitted a small trailing socket could still be installed behind the fitting and pushed into the hole above in the ceiling!

The French system is a lot neater than the "klik" lighting sockets used in the UK and is almost completely flat on the ceiling even with a plug inserted due to the recessed socket.



[This message has been edited by djk (edited 02-04-2005).]

I hadn't seen the French system before. Very similar but seemingly superior to the Swedish. Sometimes forcing French ideas onto the rest of Europe isn't such a bad idea

I measured measured a few covers in my home:

Smallest: 75 mm dia, 50 mm high. --> cramped

Biggest: 90 mm dia, 70 mm high --> plenty of room.

The sleekest looking cover is not the smallest.

All the guys here already gave a pretty nice explanation, so I'll just add some details.
The mounting strip on such a light is usually fixed to the ceiling in whatever way the HO wants to... sometimes they just drive drywall screws into the ceiling. For good support they should be screwed to a joist.
Yes, all connections are made inside the cover on the fixture. Yours is about the smallest one I've ever seen though. We jokingly call those covers "yoghurt cups" due to their shape. IMHO plenty of room to fit up to 3 1,5mm2 wires (around 16AWG THHN) and a choc block. Another common way is a solid hook drilled into the ceiling. Long ago I posted some schematic drawings, maybe I can dig them up.

Somebody else e-mailed me with a similar idea just a few days ago. Unfortunately, it's a no go:

https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum1/HTML/005437.html