http://www.iec.ch/zone/plugsocket/ps_entry.htm

Thanks C-H...most interesting...!

Whatever the benefits may be, I don't see any country rushing to adopt the IEC's standard. Even if one or two places did, unless everywhere else changes as well they'll be no better off anyway.

Quite a few questionable entries there, in the plug/socket tables.

The nominal voltage here in Belgium is no longer 220v it is now 230; and the socket type is type 3 the same as for France, with the earthing pin, instead of type 2 with the clasp-type earthing contacts as used in Germany.

Type 2 is in common use in the Netherlands. Never come across a type 4 there.

In Luxembourg they use type 2 sockets not type 4,

I normally seen type 2 used in Portugal, not type 4.

My answer to travel woes (especially as many times there is a shed-load of kit going with too, all needing power!).
http://www.marcspages.co.uk/tech/?6100

M.

I suppose we have adopted one IEC standard; the cable powering your computer ( and many a kettle ) for instance...

As for the rest...

The IEC proposal doesn't really make a lot of sense to be quite honest and I can see absolutely no advantage over schuko.

The ungrounded plug is still unpolarised. While the grounded plug is polarised, why not just adopt the French system!? It's polarised too and fully compatable with exsisting CEE 7/7

----

Looking through those tables the vast majority of european countries already use B2/B3 outlets. As does much of the rest of the 230V world.

The CEE 7/7 plug already provides a great sollution. It works seamlessly with both French and German earthing systems and works across pretty much all of Europe except a few odd-ball countries.

-----------

Denmark: (3-pin grounded plug & Europlug)
The exsisting system is dangerous as you can plug CEE 7/7 grounded plugs into the outlets leaving appliences dangerously unearthed.

Should simply move to schuko or if they're fussy about polarisation of their Class I appliences use the French system.

Italy:
The exsisting system is no better / worse than schuko. Outlets that accept both Italian and Schuko plugs are already available. They should switch.

Switzerland:
The system's got polarised grounded plugs ... The French system also provides polarised grounded plugs but full compatability with CEE 7/7... Why not just change over?

UK & Ireland.

Install schuko or French outlets with integrated fuses either 13 or 16A which would make them compatable with the ring circuits.

----

Why should the rest of Europe standardise something that apart from a few exceptions is already standardised?!

You really don't need a bag full of adaptors while traveling around Europe.. from eastern russia to western france is all CEE 7/7 compatable

& All except the UK / IRL will accept europlug ungrounded devices.

....

The IEC plug also seems suspiciously like the current Swiss system.... I wonder if their being based in Switzerland had anything to do with that?


Outside of Europe it might make more sense as you've a complete mess of various current and obsolete British standards, European standards, Aus/NZ systems along with NEMA 120V outlets being used for 230V.



[This message has been edited by djk (edited 11-06-2004).]

Nothing new there then...!

Actually, looking at that IEC plug the current recessed CEE 7/7 compatable outlets are actually superiour in so far as they don't require sheathed pins on grounded and larger appliences. (i.e. where 16A schuko or contour plugs are used) This surely means that you've got a bigger surface area of pin to connect with and less chance of poor connections / hot pins.

BS1363 plugs have this problem! As the socket outlets, particularly the cheaper ones, get older the spring-contacts start making less contact with plugs resulting in hot pins and even damage to the outlets / plugs.

This may be more common in Ireland where the voltage is lower (typically reads 220 - 228V) In the UK it's just that little bit higher.#

Also, I can see no problem with a "decent" sized plug. At least people have no problems pulling them out / getting a grip on them and they're sturdy enough to support the large number of plug-in xformers and other devices that we all use thesedays!

The contact area is a good point. If you strip down some of the cheap BS1363 (13A) outlets you'll find that the actual contact area is quite small, which makes something of a contrast with the huge plug pins.

Some of the old BS546 5A sockets actually seem to have a far larger contact area when a plug is inserted than the cheaper modern BS1363 types.

Also, I think the recessed aspect of it gives Shucko 16A plugs and sockets a useful degree of splash-resistance. It might make a good difference in a garden. My "outdoor" appliances and extension leads are all fitted with the moulded plugs. There are more 2-pin europlug appliances in the bathroom and kitchen, so they are less well protected, though those have the shielded pins in any case, so incursion of moisture ought not to give shocks.

I think the marque is 'duraplug' of a similar kind for BS1363/A, where there is a recessed socket and matching moulded fused plug. The English friends of mine that visited had them for their old VW hippyvan, to run the fridge, microwave, radio and a lamp, in a couple of 20m lengths. I remember a lash-up from my top window to the flex wound round the wing mirror bracket, which was dodgy, but it worked for the night :-o

With UK extension leads, why is it necessary to fuse both the plug and also the extension socket?

About plug derating: in the kitchen, there's a 3500w salamander and it plugs into an ordinary socket. It is used for a couple of hours per day, and that plug stays perfectly cold. In the laundry room, the plug that originally used to be moulded onto the flex of the washer (about 3.0kw) used to be scorching hot, until I cut it off and wired on a proper plug, and now, that's a chilled plug too :-) And I am still not satisfied with the use of such a thin flex for that washer -- during a long washing cycle, it gets far too warm for my liking. But the plugs and sockets themselves I reckon are easily good for 16A over a long duration.

With UK extension leads/cords only the plug is normally fused (and not necessarily at 13A... it could be a lower rated fuse)

However, that being said quite a large number of multisocket power strips also have a fuse covering the entire strip.

I've even seen a power strip with a fuse & switch on each outlet!! as well as a 13A fuse in the plug!

So.. if used in Ireland:

RCD+20A breaker > 13A plug fuse > 13A socket fuse > 3A to 13A plug fuse.

Some office wiring systems also use individually fused sockets. Often at <13A ... they are mainly used for IT equipment.


Also, rather odd one:
A double-adaptor doesn't have to carry a fuse!
But a triple adaptor does...

So with a double adaptor you could potentially load a BS1363 socket with 26Amps!!

I think all multi-outlet adaptors and powerstrips, regardless of plug type, should carry fuse / some kind of over current protection.

I noticed in the USA the more expensive brands of power strip have a 15A breaker that doubles as a switch.


[This message has been edited by djk (edited 11-09-2004).]

I take it that that is a single-line Discrimination line of the the protection used.
Personally I would like to see the 3A fuse in the plug blow first, if the appliance doesn't already have one.


{By the way, this will be my last post at ECN, thanks for your time guys!}

Trumpy,

How come it's your last post?

And, re the fuses.. it's not my experience..

Usually the 20A breaker goes (or the RCD) first..

Those BS fuses don't react quite as quickly as modern breakers.

Good luck. I hope you come back soon!

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 11-09-2004).]

There are quite a few such anomolies in British wiring. A spur off a ring may be wired with 2.5 sq. mm cable and feed a double socket. However unlikely, it is possible to plug two 3kW loads into that outlet and overload the spur cable. Under older editions of the IEE Regs. a spur could actually feed two outlets in different places, increasing the likelihood of this happening.

Yes, Duraplug is the name of a whole range of rugged connectors from MK Electric (one of Britain's top electrical accessory manufacturers for decades). Are these the couplers you have in mind?



Full range of Duraplug devices here

What on earth is a salamander?

(I have a cartoon-like image of a reptile basking under 3500W of heat lamps in my mind now! )



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 11-10-2004).]

Yes, those are the exact connectors. That one is very similar to the normal trailing socket on a standard French or Belgian extension cable , with the lip around the outlet to stop moisture getting in.

A salamander I believe is the term in English for a heavy-duty type of grill, where the food is placed on a wire rack and is heated by IR reflected from the elements both above and below. The elements in ours are the silica glass-encased type which reach operating temperature very quickly. They are also available fired by gas. You can find pictures of them on the websites of catering suppliers, such as
http://www.ceonline.co.uk/itemdisplay.php3/itemid/472

although that one is "only" 3kw The very good commercial gas ones deliver the heat eqivalence of about 6kw.

It is a curious name, probably back to the legend that salamanders are supposed to be able to live inside a burning fire or some stuff like that. Nonsense really.

Well I never heard of these grills being called salamanders before. I guess we learn something every day! Thanks.

You come across schuko couplers that are very similar to the above BS1363 one used to hook up garden equipment and stuff over here in Ireland.

i.e. a short cable with a moulded Contour plug on the end of a strimmer, plugs into a recessed schuko coupler like that ... the other end of the cable would have a normal BS1363 plug.

All IP44 Schuko plugs look like that. The better ones are almost impossible to break, even during rough work site use. Real heavy duty extension cords use either yellow or black rubber flex, heavy stuff. With a three-way trailing socket you could easily kill somebody...
Once had a cheap plug of that kind though, and suddenly one of the pins disappeared into the casing upon plugging it in... dumped it.