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Posted By: PaulCornwall Number of Socket outlets - 08/09/04 05:31 PM
Good evening fellow sparks

just a small question if anyone can help..on a new build house, is there a minimum number of socket outlets in the bedrooms, as required by the building regs.. have read it some where but cant find it now..

cheers

Paul
Posted By: pauluk Re: Number of Socket outlets - 08/09/04 08:09 PM
So far as I'm aware, there is nothing in the Building Regs. which specify a minimum number for any room.

There are some (very vague) references to sockets and switch locations in part M, however:

*** Danger Will Robinson! Link is to the dreaded Office of Deputy Prime Minister site! ***

[Linked Image]


http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/page/odpm_breg_0254 94-06.hcsp


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 08-09-2004).]
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Number of Socket outlets - 08/09/04 09:07 PM
PaulC,
Even though I may come from the other side of the world and use a different wiring method.
I have this to say, give the people more socket-outlets than what they need.
This will later mean that they won't start using shonky devices like multi-way power boards to effect more outlets!.
It's best to protect your installation from problems at the start and I would recommend a minimum of 4 double sockets, two of which should be near the head of the bed, for clock/radio's and electric blankets. [Linked Image]
Posted By: pauluk Re: Number of Socket outlets - 08/09/04 10:13 PM
Certainly agree with that. The more the merrier!

When my father rewired the old house to which we moved in 1970, we had outlets in just about every conceivable place you might want to use one. I'm sure that at that time we must have been the most outlet-equipped house in the street.

Certainly for bedrooms, I think it's a good idea to place them either side of any likely location of a bed, plus any others in other parts of the room.

In fact I think there's a lot of merit in the American approach: An outlet within 6 ft. of a doorway and at least every 12 ft. around the room.
Posted By: aland Re: Number of Socket outlets - 08/10/04 01:49 AM
Paul,
A reasonable guide guide is the Crabtree technical guideline 1 for typical domestic installatins it has the recomendations as laid down by EILC (Electrical Industry Liasion Commitee. My copy is out of date (dont do to mutch domestic work nower days. Its a specifiers guide used by local Authorities and Architects. Give your local Crabtree rep a shout he might have an upto date copy, This one is dated 1993 and the minimum recomendation then was 4 twin sockets in a double bedroom, 3 in a single bedroom.
Things have moved on a pace since then, Tv's, Computers etc, kids bedrooms especially seem to become the nerve center for everything. I think I might even consider 6 twin sockets not to be that outrageouse these days. What does the client want to pay for is the other question?
Posted By: sanUK Re: Number of Socket outlets - 08/10/04 04:06 PM
P 156 of the OSG

Lounge 6-10
Dining room 3
Kitchen 6-10
Double Bedroom 4-6
Single Bedroom 4-6
Hall 2
Loft 1
Study 6
Garage 2
Utility Room 2
Posted By: David UK Re: Number of Socket outlets - 08/10/04 09:14 PM
Hi Paul C,
If you live in Scotland the Building Standards (Scotland) Regulations 1990 specify minimum numbers of socket outlets for new and altered dwellings.
These are set at very minimal levels, as follows:
Kitchens: 6 socket outlets.
Other apartments ie. Bedrooms, Dining etc.: 4 socket outlets.
An additional 4 socket outlets are required elsewhere.
In normal circumstances these requirements will be exceeded.
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Number of Socket outlets - 08/13/04 09:29 AM
The newest ECANZ (Electrical Contractors Assoc.) manual recommends this for a standard 3 bedroom house here and bear in mind, this is a minimum that we use here:
Lounge- 12 points (Combination of 4 Way and Double outlets)
Dining Area- 4 points (both Doubles)
Kitchen- 16 points(minimum)
Master Bedroom- 7 points
Other Bedrooms- 6 points
Office Area- 10 points
Garage/Workshop- 10 points
Laundry- 6 points.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Number of Socket outlets - 08/13/04 08:07 PM
Things have sure come a long way from the days of one 15A outlet next to the fireplace and a 5A one for the radio on the opposite wall! [Linked Image]
Posted By: djk Re: Number of Socket outlets - 08/14/04 05:58 PM
Just did a quick count of our house:

Kitchen: 10 over the counters (5 doubles)

4 at fairly high points around the dining area, 4 at lower level (3ft) (doubles)

1 for dishwasher (Single 15A) (switched over the counter on own 16A MCB) and 1 for cooker hood (single 13A)
1 for fridge (13A)

Utility room:
1 for washer (15A)
1 for dryer (15A)
going to their own 16A MCBs

4 on wall above 1 of which is taken up by a fridge. (2 X doubles)

Living room:

Behind TV 4 outlets

and 2 other doubles scattered around.

Dining room: 6 (3 doubles)

Sitting room 8 (4 doubles) + lamp sockets (4 x 5Amp)

Hallway 4 (2 doubles) and 2 X lamp sockets (5A)

Bedroom halway 4 (2 x doubles)

Master bedroom 8 (4 x doubles)
1 at each side of bed, one at dressing table and another randomly placed

other bedrooms 4 or 6 (i.e. 2 or 3 doubles)

Garage: 1 double 13A and 1 double 16A (Blue Ceeform)

exterior : 5 X 16 A ceeform scattered around garden all appropriately RCD protected on one radial with 16A MCB. They're not intended to be used simultaniously, but just to give flexibility while using gardening equipment.


Circuits:

one 20A radial per room

except: kitchen has 2 X 20 amp and several single 16A MCBs for individual appliences (i.e. dishwasher etc)

and the outlets behind the TV are on their own 16A radial for some reason.

Distribution board is pretty big with 3 rows of MCBs/RCDs

rated 100A
Posted By: PaulCornwall Re: Number of Socket outlets - 08/17/04 06:20 AM
Thanks Guys

I agree the more the merrier.. the reason i asked the question i am buying a new build house, and in the master bedroom there is only 2 twin sockets, they want £65.00 for each extra socket, which i loave to pay, but its something i have to have done because it is extremely difficult to put extra ones in a new house..chipboard floors etc..
Posted By: uksparky Re: Number of Socket outlets - 08/17/04 09:02 PM
Quote
Things have sure come a long way from the days of one 15A outlet next to the fireplace and a 5A one for the radio on the opposite wall!
A veritable abundance!! [Linked Image] I started at a cottage in the Lakes today:
One pendant lamp in the centre if each room ( two living, two bed, kitchen, bathroom ), none on the stairs or 'landing'! Sockets? LOL! ONE in the kitchen; a cooker/socket combo added in 1996 along with a circuit for the immersion heater...never used.
Talk about a blast form the past [Linked Image] The cottage was occupied until last November by one ol' lady who lived alone wth no family at all [Linked Image] She didn't even have a phone. The cooker point and immersion heater were added at the insistence of her GP - who paid for them as well.
What a life eh? Unbelievable. Still the cottage is completely 'untouched' apart from that and has some beautiful features.

Quote
Distribution board is pretty big with 3 rows of MCBs/RCDs
I'm not surprised!! [Linked Image]
What's with all the radials???
Posted By: pauluk Re: Number of Socket outlets - 08/18/04 07:40 AM
That cottage is probably fairly well equipped by comparison to some!

I remember seeing a story a couple of years ago about some remote old cottages up north (Yorkshire moors?) which still had no electricity whatsoever.

Quote
What's with all the radials???
ALthough Ireland uses rings, they don't seem to have gone for them in quite such a big way as the U.K.
Posted By: uksparky Re: Number of Socket outlets - 08/18/04 11:34 PM
Yes, we have one or two cottages in this locality that aren's connected to the mains, though they do have gennys or even windmills now! I wired one out in 2002 which had nothing except a solid-fuel Aga, fires and oil lamps [Linked Image] It was, as I recall from ten or so years ago, the most beautiful place to spend new years eve [Linked Image] Very atmospheric.

Sadly, all such places are now holiday cott's [Linked Image]

Ireland eh? Sorry - didn't realise that was the locality!! [Linked Image]
Posted By: djk Re: Number of Socket outlets - 08/19/04 09:16 AM
We do use rings but for some reason a lot of electricans seem to prefer radials.

There are two basic reasons. We traditionally used 220V/50Hz, diazed fuses and schuko outlets. It wasn't unusual to see a 3 or 4 row diazed fusebox in a normal house.

We switched over to BS1363 and I think many electricans just continued to wire radially. I suspect some of them just didn't trust the system at all. Many of these guys continued to use neozed fuses well into the 1980s as they didn't consider MCBs reliable enough!!!

People generally like the idea of one fuse per room / one fuse per group of rooms rather than just a couple or rings. At least you can isolate and identify a faulty applience easily.

Also, the typical modern Irish home doesn't exactly lend itself to the use of rings. We've adopted the sprawling bungalow approach to house building so using rings would be far from practical.

I've heard a lot of horror stories about British DIY books used in Ireland though. DIYers confronted with a 16 or 20A radial presuming that it's a ring and whacking on endless extra sockets and then wondering why the fuses keep blowing or worse, trying to "mend" a diazed fuse!!!!
Posted By: pauluk Re: Number of Socket outlets - 08/21/04 05:46 PM
Quote
I've heard a lot of horror stories about British DIY books used in Ireland though.

I remember finding an American DIY wiring book on a library shelf in Ireland (I think it was Carrick-on-Shannon).

I bet that caused a lot of head-scratching.......
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Number of Socket outlets - 08/30/04 01:46 PM
Lemme see...
Kitchen: Single next to the door, double above the sink, triple above the counter left of the window and double on right side of the window for the refrigerator. Double on own 16A circuit behind the dishwasher, only one used.

Hallway: 8m long and 2m wide corridor, one single at each end.

Living room: Single next to where the door used to be, single at location of new door, three singles spread over the wall acrosss the room from the door. Ungrounded single where the old light switch used to be.

Kids bedroom: Single at each of the 2 doors, ungrounded single on each side of the window, one disconnected because it's blocked up by the radiator, the other one equipped with a 3-way adaptor.

Main bedroom: Single next to the door, double on one side of the bed, a triple and a single next to the window.

Bathroom: Surface-mount double on the left of the mirror above the sink, as far away from the tub as possible (not too easy in a 2x2m bathroom). Single on separate 16A circuit for washing machine.

Small bedroom (according to the original plans servant's bedroom, for some time my bedroom, size about 2x3,5m): None at all. I added a few surface-mount triples and a single next to the door. My dad used it for quite some time with all wiring being a rotary switch and a stone-aged pendant light.

Circuits: 4x 16A, 2 for washing machine and dishwasher, 1 for kitchen, small bedroom and toilet, one for everything else. When we renovated last year I added 2 circuits by installing a 4-fuse surface-mount Diazed panel that looks real cool and ancient. We also replaced the 100mA main RCD with a 30mA type. Despite all rewqiring attempts the place (100m2 apartment) is still a mix of 1910s, 1950ies(?), 1970ies, and new wiring. Bathroom light switch and fixture as well as 2 other light fixtures are still on 1910s cloth wiring, some more stuff is on later PVC covered wiring, most of the other stuff is 1977 (ma dad rewired most of the stuff when he moved in, also replacing the 2-circuit Diazed panel with a 4-circuit MCB panel w/ RCD), along with some new wiring I did.
Posted By: uksparky Re: Number of Socket outlets - 08/30/04 02:20 PM
When I go to a job I ask how many sockets and where they are to go. 9/10 haven't a clue! [Linked Image] And for those that 'specify' I usually overrule half of them as being unsafe/OTT/hellish to fit! [Linked Image]

In most houses, unless told otherwise, I put: (All doubles; 1 = 2 outlets )

Hall - 1 + 1 by a phone table
Lounge - 2 @ TV location and 1 or 2 on each wall
Dining 3 to 4
Kitchen - F/spurs to all fixed appliances ( above counter ) with single u/s sockets behind appliance. Then 3 to 'loads' depending on size of room [Linked Image]
Utility - same as kitchen but not so many extras
Bedrooms - 1 per person next to bed/s and 1 or 2 on other walls depending on size
Landing - usually 1 hoover point
I also try to fit RCD protected weatherproofs outside to prevent unprotected extensions being used to power stuf in the garden. Garages are always wired with RCD protection - and preferably outdoor accessories depending on their location.

I always fit more sockets than immediately needed; for the small cost it could save a lot of heartache in the future [Linked Image]
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