Just been to price a rewire on a house that the customer has just bought,, she has had an inspection from an NICEIC registered company during the purchase and wants it rewired,, anyway it was worrying to find a twin socket in the bathroom (9ft x 5ft) with a tumble drier and oil filled heater pluged into the socket..and no mention of this on his/her inspection report....

Maybe they where short sighted.. a bit of a worry dont you think??

Your quite right Paul its a poor show when someone misses a basic point like this! NICEIC registered or not it does not realy matter, it should not happen.
Lots of electricians and contractors do reports and do not realy understand the implications of what they are signing.

I see and do lots of reports and quite honnestly find the standard report forms very poor to use any way. I tend to use the NICEIC format but I always write a seperate overview report to go with it. High-lighting the dangerous points if any and explaining in as simplistic way possible pitfalls and remedies.
I tend to detail the installation as I see it starting with the supply and design as it would have originally been intended following through on a room by room basis detailing any obviouse additions or alterations to the original installation noting all of the relavent deviations all with comments on the method of installation used to carry out the work. This is then augmented with random test results from selected circuits and points of utilisation, these being doccumented on the test schedule

Did one last week as a matter of fact and the writen report alone contained some 30 pages of detail you can't put that on a standard inspection cert very easily.
Lots of contractors just seem to go for the standard Bonding, No RCD on sockets, No grommets in box,s type report conclusion un-satisfactory. Rewire needeed.

How do you do your inspection and testing?

The prices people do reports for are also a joke I have heard them quoted as low as £30.00. How do you find prices figure in your area for reports?

PaulC,
If an Inspector can miss a tumble dryer and a oil heater in a bathroom, or see's them and can't put 2 and 2 together, it kind of makes wonder about the calibre of the Inspector.
Aland,
Yes, I would agree with that statement in a split-second.
The worst part of doing a report like this, is that something that you never checked (because it was hidden, or for some other reason), may cause a fault later on.
And with you being the last registered person to "work" in the house, you are immediately held responsible, because you signed the report.
With respect to reports, I've done a few of these and I use a heap of paper while doing the actual inspection.
Everything gets checked/tested when I do a report, I don't like the idea of having something I've missed, coming back to bite me in the b/side later down the track.
I even check the customers appliances.
Sure it may take me ages to do a said inspection and I tell my customers that and also the approximate cost, I've never had a complaint yet.
And yes, I also agree Alan, the final report should use as plainer English as possible, there is no point in writing a report that no one outside of the Trade, can understand.
Finally, while I've probably never made much money out of inspections/reports, I have made some really good customers for the company that I work for.

Considering the British no-sockets-in-bathroom-under-any-circumstances-whatsoever obsession, it does seem rather strange that this was missed.

I would have thought it hard to miss a dryer sitting in a bathroom. It might be a common enough sight in some countries, but it's certainly rare in Britain.

sorry to sound smart on this, but....
Part 6 of BS7671(special locations)does allow washers and sockets in bathrooms under controlled circumstances.
It depends how far from the tub/shower the socket is and it must be 30mA rcd'd

Hi Teach,
Welcome to the forum.
I would take issue with your remark that socket outlets (other than SELV or shaver) are permitted in bathrooms under controlled circumstances in installations wired in accordance with BS7671: 2001. See Reg 601-08-01.
RCD protected sockets are permitted outside zone 3 where a shower cubicle is fitted in a room other than a bathroom or shower room, eg. a bedroom. See Reg 601-08-02.
Washers & dryers can certainly be installed in a bathroom providing they are permanently connected & suitable for the zone they are installed in, with RCD protection where required.

Welcome to the forum Teach.

This is one of those areas where I think the IEE Regs. don't always make sense. If you can have a waher/dryer in the bathroom hardwired, then why should the same unit not be plug-&-socket connected, if the outlet is suitably placed?

Yes, somebody might decide to try to use that socket for a hairdryer while in the tub I suppose, but they might try to do any one of a number of other stupid things as well. I really think it's time for the IEE to relax their stance on this.

Sorry paul I think its far better as it is at least at the momnt we can claim imunity and say BS 7671 does not allow us to do this, imagine the wrangle's that we could end up in because the client wants a socket at the edge of the bath tub to plug the radio in. Rcd or no Rcd mo thanks.

Point taken Alan. It is sometimes hard to explain why something shouldn't be done.

But in this case I think we could specify certain requirements: RCD protection, minimum distance from tub/shower and so forth.

COnsidering the postage-stamp size of some British bathrooms, it's probably a moot point anyway. If you put a washing machine in some of them, you'd never get in there yourself.

By the way, I came upon a regular BS1363 outlet im a bathroom a few months ago. It was on the opposite side of a fair-sized bathroom to the tub, located at a height of about 5 ft. next to a vanity mirror/cupboard.

Naturally I pointed out to the owner that this was a violation of IEE Regs./BS7671 (which, of course, he was under no legal obligation to follow), but in all honesty in the location and the way it was used, I couldn't see it as a safety concern. If it had been sitting right next to the bath taps, it would have been a different matter.

Hear hwat you say Paul and agree with you on the large bathroom jobie. The only problem I have nower days is that every one has a smart arse lawyer who would have no hesitation in sueing us as last man in if ever anything whent wrong, and I find that kind of scarey. So I air on the side of caution and say No to sockets in bathrooms.

Hi Teach..

sorry mate but if you noticed i put down the size of the bathroom,, and anyway the socket was in zone 2 so thats a no no in my book..so was the drier and oil heater..

its all right you all saying that its ok on an rcd, but how many of these get tested after we have fitted them??

was on a small extension to a house last week with a tt system, thought i better test the rod,, yep no earth,, so much for your rcd now..had to install 2 new rods to get a reading..

anyway the point i was making was that the contractor was in the NICEIC..



[This message has been edited by PaulCornwall (edited 06-29-2004).]

oops!
I must be careful with off the cuff remarks in future!
I didnt notice the size of the bathroom till id posted.
Then i got the book out and read it again....
If a washer was in zone 3 it would have to be on a spur protected by an rcd.
Can I say that Im real glad I stumbled on this site as its nice to converse with learned people!

Sure enough, although as lawyers like to nit-pick over technicalities of law, they should realize that there was no legal obligation for the owner to follow BS7671 anyway.

But if we get into that, the new part P building regulations could open a can of worms anyway, as one section indicated compliance with electrical standards by following BS7671 or the wiring rules of other EEC countries. That would definitely given legal weight to the arguments that sockets in bathrooms are acceptable, as almost every other EU country allows them.

Have a look here for the discussion we had about the new Part P Regs.:
https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000255.html