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Posted By: Texas_Ranger BC light bulbs in France? - 10/08/03 03:58 PM
Some days ago I watched the Fabulous world of Amélie movie and closely watched a scene wher someone changes a light bulb and it definitely looks like it is a bayonet cap one (only turns it maybe 1/4 of a turn, not nearly as far as needed for ES). Do they actually use BC bulbs in France?
I've only ssen them used in the UK/Ireland and in Greece.
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/08/03 05:15 PM
Didn't Spain also use bayonet base bulbs?

I have a copy of an old Larousse Illustrated dictionary in Spanish. The illustration for a lightbulb is one of those bayonet base types.

Of course, I believe the company that makes the Larousse is based in France, isn't it?

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 10-08-2003).]
Posted By: djk Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/08/03 05:54 PM
BC bulbs are definitely used quite commonly in France although I am not 100% sure if they're as normal as they are in the UK or not but I definitely remember changing plenty of them and they were easily available in the supermarket. Simple pendant and basic wall fittings were all BC in the house that I lived in anyway [Linked Image] You don't honestly think the French would do something the US way do you!?

ES fittings are quite plentiful too, although in the UK/Ireland EC fittings are increasingly commonplace particularly in cheaper imported designer lights. I would guess the situation is the same in France. Both types, as far as I am aware, are recognised by Cenelec / EN ... perhaps someone could check that as the ones here tend to only have a BS / IS number on them

I think Italy uses at least some BC bulbs too
http://www.mr-bricolage.fr/fiches_magazines/Mb33-05.htm

"Sir Joseph Swan and his brother Alfred had a significant impact on the development of electric lighting in their native England, and throughout Europe. Swan's lamps are recognized most by the famous "opposing side-pin" Swan lamp base, for which his brother Alfred was the inventor (see British Patent No. 9,185, June 19, 1884; U.S. Patent No. 313,965, Mar 17, 1885; and associated Patents of France, Belgium, Italy and Austria). The original Swan side pin twist-lock lamp base and socket evolved into what is now regarded as the "bayonet" base and socket, a standard for lighting in that part of the world. This Swan family influence is also world wide among auto makers through the universal adoption of this original mechanical arrangement. Compared to the Edison screw base, the Swan twist-lock arrangement was better suited for securing lamps in vehicles where vibration was a factor. For a century, Swan bayonet base lamps have been used in nearly every tail light and parking light of every car and every truck in the world."

http://www.edisonian.com

{ Edited to get second link to work -- Paul }


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 10-08-2003).]
Posted By: pauluk Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/08/03 09:18 PM
I'm not sure about the EN classification, but I've certainly seen both BC and ES bulbs in France as well.

ES types are more common in the U.K. these days than they once were, and are used in quite a few light fittings, but BC is still the most common and regarded as the "normal" type by most people.
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/09/03 10:03 AM
Quote
You don't honestly think the French would do something the US way do you!?
Definitley not, but I wouldn't have thought they'd do something UK style either! So my guess would have been they used ES along with most of the other continental European countries.
Interesting they mention Austria here. 220V BC bulbs are absolutely unknown here, though they'Re widely used for LV lighting as mentioned in the article.
Posted By: pauluk Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/09/03 06:35 PM
Bearing in mind the way France likes to be different from the crowd in most things, it's quite surprising that they didn't come up with their own uniquely French style of lamp base!

The first brass/ceramic BC holder ("Douille métallique à baïonnette") in the Mr. Bricolage link above looks identical to those commonly used in the U.K.
Posted By: djk Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/09/03 07:06 PM
French standard sockets are actually layed out in a very UK style too albeit with the earth being a pin rather than a hole. Very few other standards with the earth pin at the top.

I actually find French typical rewireable plugs a LOT easier to deal with than their schuko equivilants. They're a tad clunkier (usually complete with handle!) but they're less fiddly.

They've pretty neat plugs for 2 core cable too.
Posted By: C-H Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/09/03 07:12 PM
Quote

Bearing in mind the way France likes to be different from the crowd in most things, it's quite surprising that they didn't come up with their own uniquely French style of lamp base!

But they did! Long ago there was a French version of the Edison bulb with at different treading of the base.
Posted By: geoff in UK Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/11/03 05:31 PM
A relative of mine has a house in France, about 50km from Perpignan, and recently had it rewired by a local contractor. They used only BC lampholders. Subsequent shopping for decorative light fittings resulted in a 50/50 mix of BC and ES.
Apparently however, small BCs, common in UK, are virtually unobtainable and had to be specially "imported" to equip a fitting they had taken with them.
Posted By: djk Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/11/03 05:50 PM
Those small BC bulbs are very common in all sorts of wall fittings here.

Actually we have very few ES fittings other than larger reflector spots. I've found the BC version MUCH better! the ES version expands and jams the bulb into the fitting regularly.

Most normal shops here stock BC bulbs but it's actually quite difficult to get a normal style ES bulb. ES candle bulbs are more common. ES CFL bulbs are still almost only available via a lighting shop or a large hardware store (if you're lucky)
The BC versions are very easy to get.

[This message has been edited by djk (edited 10-11-2003).]
Posted By: pauluk Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/11/03 08:51 PM
SBC (Small Bayonet Cap) bulbs in at least basic pearl and clear candle styles are pretty easy to obtain here in most hardware stores.

ES seems to have become quite popular for reflector spot bulbs in downlighters. I too have noticed how this type in particular seem to jam in quite easily, and I've often had to extricate the remains of such a lamp where someone has tried to remove a blown bulb and the glass has come away from the base.

One cause of the overheating is that fiberglass insulation is often laid straight over the top of the lamp cans.
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/12/03 05:05 PM
I only remember 2 or three occasions where I had to extricate the remains of an old bulb from the socket and in one case some genius smashed the glass. I don't have any problems with ES, Well, other countries other customs...
Posted By: djk Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/12/03 07:12 PM
Well at least you don't have the wonderful fiber glass (or safer alternatives) wool laying traditions that we in Ireland and the UK seem to have.

DIYers and contractors lay this stuff right over the top of recessed lighting and all sorts of electrical gear in their attics

I've had to rescue bell transformers and TV amplifiers and even a whole phone system from under this stuff.

It will generally cause a light fitting to fuse and melt. The only redeeming feature is that it's fiberglass and thus fireproof and also tends to limit any fire to a very localised area due to its oxygen starving capabilities!
Posted By: pauluk Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/12/03 10:21 PM
In my experience, it's only the recessed can-type downlighters that have this problem. ES bulbs in other fittings seem to be fine.

The insulation-jockeys really do just cover up everything when they're let loose in an attic. [Linked Image]
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/13/03 04:35 AM
Ragnar said:

Quote
I only remember 2 or three occasions where I had to extricate the remains of an old bulb from the socket and in one case some genius smashed the glass.

I've had to do that a few times also. Sometimes the cement holding the screwbase to the glass envelope comes loose from the heat. Then the bulb is dangling by the two little wires that go into the bulb. My grandmother actually had a bulb fall out of the socket like that ! She saw drop, land on the floor and bounce around without shattering!

I didn't believe it until she took the glass bulb with the two broken stumps of wire from the kitchen counter and showed it to me. The screwshell was still in the lampholder in the ceiling.

What some people suggest you do is use a potato or a wooden broomstick.

Unscrew or pull the fuse (or throw the breaker) and jam that sucker into the socket and turn.

I've never done that. I just knock off the power and use a fine pair of needle nose pliers, grab the edge of the metal base and turn. Much easier and I don't have to waste food. [Linked Image]
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/13/03 02:42 PM
Quote
DIYers and contractors lay this stuff right over the top of recessed lighting and all sorts of electrical gear in their attics.
Well, first my experience with light fixtures is pretty much limited to our own apartment, and we _don't have fiberglass or mineral wool anywhere. Besides, we don't have any recessed cans, they're pretty uncommon in resi work here, and in commercial locations they typically use compact fluorescents. The only recessed fixtures that are real common here are 12V halogen spots. We had several of them melt down until we replaced the leads and strip connectors with heat resistant silicone ones.
I use nose pliers for getting out broken bulbs and try to grip the screw shell, usually after unscrewing the fuse and taking down the fixture.
Excpet for the bathroom we only have pendant fixtures here, and in the bathroom the 100W bulb toasted the cloth wire in the ceiling. Gotta take care of that some time. The Ikea plastic fixture cracked as well.
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/14/03 03:52 PM
DJK said:
Quote
I actually find French typical rewireable plugs a LOT easier to deal with than their schuko equivilants.

The Legrand range of those grounded French plugs with the pull-ring makes them look a bit like tea kettles.....
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/15/03 12:59 PM
You all probably haven't ever seen the old Maté plug range of the 1950ies to 70ies. Either black or white, old ones were bakelite, later ones some different plastic, porcelaine body. If they didn't break they were everlasting. The plug is cylindrical and protrudes 3.5cm from the wall, in full diameter of the Schuko receptacle, even getting wider towards the end in a stair-like pattern. If you can't pull that one out you can't pull anything!
I've got 3 working ones and one that is so badly smashed even the porcelaine body cracked and the pins hang loose.
They're pretty rare, I suppose that's beacuse in those days Schuko plugs were mostly limited to rough environments, so probably most of them cracked at some point. Ungrounded plugs of those days are much more common.
Modern Schuko plugs are indeed much smaller.
Posted By: djk Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/15/03 01:38 PM
I've seen some old schuko plugs that were in use in Ireland many years ago. They're HUGE (in comparision to their modern schuko equivilants) round black plugs that protrude quite a bit from the wall.

Something on the scale of an old british kettle plug (just with pins rather than holes)

Sound like the ones you're talking about?

The old BS546 (15A) plugs were absolutely gigantic too. Porceline round and either black or white. They were actually so large (due to being round) that it was quite difficult to get a good grip as most people's fingers don't extend that far! Ergonomics certainly didn't enter into the heads of whoever made them!

[This message has been edited by djk (edited 10-15-2003).]
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/15/03 07:31 PM
Not quite as huge, but that's about it. They were basically cylindric, 7cm in lenght overall (w/ pins) and 4cm in diameter. Really nice to grip.
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/15/03 09:09 PM
Quote
The old BS546 (15A) plugs were absolutely gigantic too. Porceline round and either black or white.

They've gotten better now though...they look sort of like triangles with three monstrous pins sticking out of them.

Maybe they made them that big because the designers wanted to be SURE that the insides were going to be properly insulated? [Linked Image]
Posted By: pauluk Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/15/03 09:42 PM
I think I have a couple of those old BS546 round plugs somewhere in my junk boxes.

I've also seen one which was a peculiar design: The triangular shape as Sven described, but with a large bulbous top cover.
Posted By: djk Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/15/03 11:18 PM
Sven:

They're a prime example of over-engineering at its best!

Certainly wouldn't have had an over-heating problem!


Paul:

There's an unusual BS1363 plug knocking around here somewhere too. Very old but has an integrated switch on the top!

Made by MK.

Pretty bulky sticks out of the wall quite a bit.

Was used on an old iron.

[This message has been edited by djk (edited 10-15-2003).]
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/16/03 12:31 PM
Schuko plugs with switches also exist. Old ones even had a rotary switch. I remember one being used on a very old tumble dryer. I use one on a short extension cord to kill power to plug pack transformers without having to unplug them. Due to the fact they're angle plugs they're actually quite small.
Posted By: pauluk Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/16/03 11:42 PM
Yes, I remember the switched MK plugs, although it's been a while since I've seen one.

As I recall, the extra layer of switch and connections appears as almost an insert between the plug base and top, making the whole thing about a quarter-inch deeper. Considering the widespread use of switched outlets, at least in domestic work, it's not surprising that switched plugs never really caught on.

I think MK did a version with both switch and a neon indicator light on the front as well.
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: BC light bulbs in France? - 10/17/03 01:12 AM
I have a couple of BS-546 5-amp plugs with switches on the top -- and with neon indicator lights!!

A coworker in our Hong Kong office picked them up for me. [Linked Image]
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