Which plug style is most likely to be encountered at a hotel in Antiparos, Greece?
I'm going to travel there next week and want an adaptor for hairdryers (you know, you want to be a gentleman in case your female classmates need a hairdryer... )
C-H's web site shows round pin ungrounded, BS 546, French and Schuko. Which one of these is most common? Round pin ungrounded and Schuko is no problem at all, French is just a short extension cord with CEE 7/7 plug and Schuko trailing socket, but BS 546?

One of my friends, who is Greek and travels to Athens a lot, brought back a Schuko power strip from there.

He has a lot of electronic gadgetry he's brought back from there and mot of it is equipped with Schuko and Europlug type connections.

I've never seen a house-hold handheld hair dryer use grounded plugs -- only the heavy duty ones in barbershops.

OK, then we probably aren't going to have as much fun as in Rome last fall...
I _asked_ the girls whether they had thought of an adaptor before we departed, and they all said "yes, sure, no problem." When we were there I heard them screaming and cursing, trying to force the hairdryer's 16A contour plug with 4,8mm pins into the tight-fitting 4mm-holes of an Italian socket. Hairdryers hardly ever have Euro plugs since these are only rated for 2.5A and every decent hairdryer draws noticeablymore than that.
The 1950ies vintage hairdryer of my father indeed has a Schuko plug, and it's all metal.

Officially it's Schuko

I've never seen anything other than either Schuko or older unearthed 2 pin Europlug outlets.

Not sure where they're getting the BS546 idea from seems a little unlikely other in perhaps Cyprus.

Btw Cyprus uses BS1363

I found BS1363 installed alongside Schuko in appartments we rented there too. Was simply for UK tourists convienience. I've seen this in France too, apparently the logic is that many hotels etc would like to avoid the use of very dodgy adaptors. Minimises the fire/shock risk associated with UK tourists!

In theory a Schuko or "contour" plug should be able to fit in an Italian 16-amp socket (thicker pins). Some of them have overlapping holes for 16 and 10 amp plugs.

Ragnar, maybe you should buy one of those cheap-ass travel packs of adapter plugs and when these kiddies need one because they forgot, you offer to rent it for a modest fee.

No, contour plugs won't go into standard Italian receptacles. The pin spacing of the contour plug is the same as the 10A plug but the pin diameter is like the 16A plug and the 16A plug has the pins spaced further apart. Unlike most ungrounded receptacles Italian 10A receptacles don't have much marging concerning pin diameter, so you won't be able to force a contour or Schuko plugs into a 10A receptacle without breaking the plastic around the holes. Only Receptacles that take both Schuko and Italian plugs (usually power strips) have larger inner holes.
Seems to be all fine though, as the Greeks seem to have standard plugs.

Schuko seems to be gradually becoming the single standard for most of Europe. I wonder will the other 2-round pin based systems survive?

The Italian plug has to be the neatest design in the world. Takes up very little space on a box/panel. It also makes it idea for fitting into very old buildings. UK and Schuko fittings are very bulky in comparison.

I'd say the Italian plug system is as likely to stay around as the UK system just based on the population of italy being large enough to do its own thing.

The Danish system seems slightly pointless. [OK it's polarised (half the time anyway)] Especially considering that you can easily connect a schuko plug and end up with no earth. I'd say given the size of Denmark and the fact that the rest of Scandinavia uses Schuko that the Danish system will disappear.

As for the Swiss system it doesn't really offer any technical advantages over schuko. The outlets are generally low rated, the plugs are no safer. They're a neat design though. The recessed version also makes it impossible to connect grounded schuko/French plugs. Given the swiss history of keeping things within the codes I'd say it'll survive too.

For solid technical reasons and not so solid europhobia I can't see the UK ever adopting Schuko.

It would make no logical sense to standardise European outlets on anything else though almost the entire area uses them exclusively.

I've never been to Greece, so I can't comment on that one, but it does indeed seem as though Schuko is gradually becoming the European de facto standard.

The biggest hurdle to it ever being accepted by the U.K. committees is that it's non-polarized.

I doubt that the Italian plug will survive. I admit that they're a neat design, though the 2 different physical sizes are a bit impractical. There's also a wide variety of 3-way adaptors bypassing the ground.
Italy is flooded with Schuko plugs, most power strips take both Italian and Schuko plugs, adaptors are available in every supermarket. Lots of household appliances just come with Schuko plugs (I've seen washing machines, refrigerators, coffee makers, computers, table lamps with contour plugs, yadda, yadda, yadda.). So I guess Italy will eventually change over to Schuko.
Swiss plugs are cool but a but flimsy and I don'T really like the unsleeved pins. And to someone who's used to Schuko receptacles the completely flat ones lok _really_ weird.
I guess the French are also stubborn enough to be able to keep their system for quite some time.
One apartment we had here in Vienna had ungrounded Italian receptacles for some really weird reason (Even the electrician wasn't able to figure out why the heck they had used Austrian ones mixed with Italian ones in some places). These were really tiny, but modern grounded Italian sockets go in really huge boxes, so i can't see any advantages.
Anyway, the largest single phase household connector I've ever seen for real was a BS 1363 trailing socket. It was about the size and shape of a surface-mount Perilex 3ph receptacle, rather close to a 2way Schuko power strip.
OT some time ago at a flea market in Vienna I was asked 2 Euro for a relatively modern BS 1363 plug with sleeved pins. The strain relief was missing. A bit over the top, isn't it?

Ragnar wrote:

Hey....didn't you want to install USA-style receptacles in your room once?

I know I was once tempted to install UK-style receps but didn't want to deal with having to get the boxes and stuff (expensive).

Plus it would make for a hell of a confusion for the next owner if I ever sold the place and left all of that stuff in place. With my luck the electrician who got stuck with re-doing the place to American standards would be on this very website commenting on the "idiot" who installed those British receptacles!!! And he'd probably post PICTURES!!!

It's bad enough I have a Colombian-made wall switch in the entryway (although those are made to USA standards).

P.S.: Yes, two euros (a bit over two dollars) for a used UK plug without a strain relief is highway robbery.

Of course name-brand new plugs in the UK (like MK brand) sell for about a quid 'n change or so I think...the cheap generic ones are a few pence.

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 06-18-2003).]

If you want to see a BULKY plug try a 15 amp BS546 trailing socket / plug.

They're HUGE! We're talking 2inches by 2 inches. They look like they were specified for about 60 - 100 amps The pins are almost as thick as an average index finger!

They had absolutely no problem with falling out of the wall outlets either. Removing a plug was almost a two person operation and would usually leave cracks in the plaster work hehe. I think that's why the outlets were often switched!

Pulling the cable to remove the plug would have resulted in the cable snapping and breaking before the plug gave up and popped out.

BS1363 isn't THAT bulky when it's the moulded on non rewirable type. It's no bulkier than Schuko and the outlets are nicer since they're flush. Fancier ones are even completely flush (i.e. thin metal) so totally flat with the wall.

Yes, the 15A versions of BS546 really are what you might call over-engineering, aren't they?

I'd bet that most of them would quite happily carry 30A all day with no problems whatsoever.

Yeah, I did want to install them, but I can't really see reasons to install _ungrounded_ Italian receptacles. Except for the different shape (rectangular instead of round or square) they'Re just the same as Austrian ones. I frequently use ungrounded Austrian plugs in Italian receptacles. So I guess it doesn't make a real difference. OK, I gotta admit the singles are much smaller, only 1 by 2 inches. A double fit a standard round Austrian box and was rectangular. An Austrian receptacle of that time was round, 8cm in diameter. Some of the Italian sockets were even universal types that would take round pin plugs (4 and 4.8mm) and NEMA 1-15. Ticino D 445, rated 10A/250V.

OK, I was talking old rewireable ones. They _were_ bulky. I admit molded BS 1363 aren't really bulky (at least if you don't compare the ones with plastic earth pin to a Euro or molded NEMA 1-15 plug)

The guys at that flea market had really weird ideas. They were from the Thai embassy and had all sorts of crazy stuff for sale. Lots of 220V appliances with NEMA 1-15 plugs (from Thailand) and some stuff with BS 1363 plugs.
For example, there was a lamp, like a red basket shaped like a rocket, with three wrought iron feet. About 1.20m tall and ugly as hell. They wanted 50 Euro!

Ragnar,

Were they selling any old (1980s and older) radios?

220 volt appliances with NEMA plugs? Hmmm...sounds familiar.

I once saw an electric can opener in the 220-volt section of an electronics store with that sort of fitting. I thought someone had made a mistake on the assembly line and things got crossed.

Of course 110/220 volt switchable appliances usually come with NEMA cordsets. I have three no-name cheepie radios like that.

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 06-19-2003).]

Tex—pardon me; I was confused. In your first post it sounded like you were packing a hairdryer with adapter and not just an adapter.

Although, the right woman might make it worth bringing the hairdryer too!

NEMA 1-15 plugs on 220V equipment seems to be quite common in the Far East. My brother has a small toaster oven like that which he brought back from the Philippines.

They sold mostly household stuff from the past 20 years ( I remember 2 satellite receivers, a nice amplifier, a coffe roaster, a refrigerator, several lamps, a US Super Nintendo, a Japanese Famicom, some bicycles, couches made of bamboo and other stuff like that. Mostly worn-out rubbish (a quite modern Sony compact stereo with radio, CD and tape, the radio display doesn't work any more, the Famicom is lacking the power supply,...)
Some of the stuff was real cheap, like the Nintendo with 17 games for 15 Euro, but some other things were incredibly expensive. Most of the electrical stuff was 220V only and had NEMA 1-15 plugs (stamped 125V/7.5A...).

Don't really think the girls who go there would be worth the effort.. just thought I could bum the hairdryer if I had the adaptor... (this was actually what I tried to do back then in Italy), anyway, I don't really need one for my short hair. Just thinking about the possibility of being a nice guy
Monday in the afternoon I'll know...

I've seen NEMA plugs and sockets installed and used in specialist applications at 230V here in ireland and they were extremely unsatisfactory. They spark really badly when they're unplugged! I presume this doesn't happen at 110V?

We removed them and replaced them with non-standard keyed MK BS1363 plugs/sockets instead as they don't comply with any acceptable safety regs here.

Only acceptable outlets here are BS1363 (normal), Schuko and BS546 (old stuff and lighting only) and CeeForm industrial sockets.

Yes they do but only if the device is of sufficient high wattage and turned on at the time. That's been my personal experience.

I've run NEMA 1-15 volt plugs at 240 volts (my local voltage is 120 volts so I use a stepup transformer) and have never had a problem.

Three radios in my collection have 110/220 volt switchable power supplies and Nema 1-15 cordsets and operate with no problems.


[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 06-21-2003).]

Sparking is pretty rare on either Schuko (proper Schuko i.e. recessed with earth clips) or BS1363 (or BS546) unless there's something wrong with the receptical

You can unplug a 3KW load from either system without any visible sparks.

Do Australian/NZ plugs spark? or italian?

I remember impressing sparks from our old ungrounded receptacles (mostly trailing sockets and 3way adaptors), I've had 10cm long sparks in some instances when unplugging a small transformer or similar stuff. Plugging something into them can also result in impressing sparks, especially when the socket is dusty.
Anyway, nothing of that is near that spectacular our old gas heater was. A real fancy thing with ceramic tile all around, butt ugly and horrendously expensive, basically capale of heating a single room but taking as much gas as a combi boiler for an entire apartment.It had electronic ignition with thermostat and all. Sometimes it wouldn't ignite correctly, and when it eventually ignited a _huge_ flame would shoot out of the bottom front of the heater (I guess near a meter wide and half a meter high) with a loud thump. Scary!

There were still a few of those big old gas "geysers" in service in Britain in the early 1970s, so I know exactly what you mean! When the things finally decided to ignite, the resounding KER-THUMP-WOOSH! was pretty scary to the little kid I was at the time.

On the sparking plugs, it's possible to draw hefty sparks from any connector if there's a heavy load on it. I think the reason it doesn't seem so obvious with BS1363, Schuko, etc. is just the design which makes it harder to see them. The burn marks from repeated withdrawals under heavy load will certainly make their presence known over time, however, and I've seen BS1363 connectors pretty badly burned, especially the cheap "no name" brands.